Your Podcast Can Save Your Business | George Bryant

George Byrant: [00:00:00] The success of your show mm-hmm. Is not boiled down to you hitting, publish. It's really boiling down to how many times after you hit publish, you unapologetically and aggressively sell that show to people who need it.

If you build it, they don't come, if you build it with them. They'll come and they'll bring other people with them.

Sadaf Beynon: Some business owners think podcasting is just another marketing tool, but what if it could be the foundation of your brand's growth? Today I am talking to George Bryant, an entrepreneur who has scaled multiple businesses to seven, eight, and even nine figures, and who leverages podcasting as a, as a strategic asset.

He's the host of the Mind of George Podcast, a New York Times bestselling author, and a highly sought after marketing consultant. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and this is Podjunction podcast. George, welcome to the show.

George Byrant: I'm so honored to be here. I'm stoked. I'm ready to dive [00:01:00] in.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. So let's do that. Let's dive in.

George, your podcast is absolutely crushing it. What's the secret sauce?

George Byrant: You know, if I had to answer that in one word, it it was two words. I'll give it two words. Uh, okay. Number one is, well, now I can go three, but I'll just build as we go. Okay. I'd say the first one and the first answer that my head is consistency.

Okay. 100% consistency. And I, the reason I say consistency is not measuring in days or weeks, but like measuring in decades. Like when I started the show, it was not about downloads. It was not about how many people listened and did a, like newsflash. I never looked at downloads. I didn't even know how many were getting a week, a month, or I still don't know.

To this day, I don't even have a login. I don't care. Love it. I think that that number one. Was this commitment to consistency of like, if I do this, I'm just doing this. And I even said it, I was like, this will go down as one of my proudest ever business legacy [00:02:00] achievements. Mm-hmm. And not because of numbers, just because I'm like, in 15 years I'm still going to be doing this.

So like giving it a chance. The second one, I would say authenticity. The reason I've been able to do the show for 600 episodes is because it feels like me. It's not like the world's version of me or what they want me to be or how they want me to speak. It's very much like I want to feel like you are in my living room and we're having a conversation like we would at the dinner table and both ways.

I invite, I. Two-way conversations. Like I say it on my podcast like, Hey, if you can challenge me, if I can learn something, if you can teach me something, like send me a message, I'd love to hear it. It's very much a two-way dialogue. And so I think the authenticity piece is the part I. That allows me to grow and allows me to feel comfortable, but also allows me to look forward to it.

So if I'm tired one day, I just own that I'm tired. If I have a son who's been home sick and not [00:03:00] sleeping and I'm recording earlier, he was coughing in the background, I'm like, Hey, welcome to behind the scenes, right? Like we have a coughing kids. So there's this human element that makes it easier to show up and to be myself because I don't have to worry about who I'm being or if I'm on or if I'm off.

It's just me kind of all the time. And I think the third one that I would say is, uh, a willingness to be curious and grow. My podcast looks very different than it did when I started. I started with no plan, no idea. Three shows a week, no outlines. I would just have an idea and I would hit record, and then I would go.

And then Monday, I'll never forget the structure Monday. It was like a five minute episode to like set the tone of your week. Wednesday was a little bit deeper Okay. Of like 20 minute strategies, tactics. And then Friday was a guest interview who was an expert in the thing that I taught. What a logistical nightmare to try to coordinate all of that.[00:04:00]

And then over time I dropped the Wednesdays, and then we went to Monday and Friday. Mm-hmm. And now we're still Monday and Friday, but Mondays have evolved into this. It's a solo show for me. Mm-hmm. Whether five minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes where I'm just teaching something. And then Friday stayed guest.

But also when I look at it now. I spend a lot of time prepping for a show.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm. I,

George Byrant: I'm the guy who just keynotes off the top of head. I've been on 10,000 podcasts, like interview me all day. You can tell if you're like, George, take over the rest of the show, I'd be like, stop. I love you, but like, you can turn off your camera if you want.

Like, I'll just run the show. Right. I can feel space. I can do it. But now there's been, I've been in the season of, you know. My message is only as effective as the recipient's ability to hear it, understand it, and implement it without me.

Sadaf Beynon: And so I've

George Byrant: been putting this pressure on myself and this like kind of.

A level of I can be better. And so now I'm like outlining [00:05:00] shows and like, Hey, am I really hitting the intro? Like, does does this make sense to them? Are they knowing what they're gonna get in the episode? Are they clear? Am I painting the picture? Mm-hmm. That like, this is what they're feeling. Like, do I have a clear takeaway?

Does it, does it make sense? And so now I like, I even apologize. I'm like, Hey, sorry if I'm not looking at the camera, I actually have notes to make sure this is helpful for you. Right. Because like. My whole career has been like just stare at the camera lens. Yeah. But now, like I have notes on my iPad and I'm like, I want to do this.

And so I'd say if. If you really, really think about it, it's number one is like making commitment that you're unattached to the results. That you're focused more on significance than success because when you focus on significance, whether that's one person or 10 people or 30 people, success follows that right?

But it's baked in for the right reasons. Number two is authenticity. Right there, there is no other you and there can never be another you, but if your own home doesn't feel comfortable for [00:06:00] you to live in it. It's not gonna feel comfortable for anybody else to visit it either. I

Sadaf Beynon: love that. And

George Byrant: that's where authenticity comes in.

And then the third is, is be willing to be childlike and curious and grow. Mm-hmm. Just because you started it one way doesn't mean you have to keep it that way. Just 'cause you recorded one way doesn't mean you have to. Just 'cause you did two episodes a week doesn't mean you can't do three or you can't do one, you can't change it.

And I, I try to tell people like, your podcast is, is your vehicle. Mm-hmm. You own it. Now, of course there could be, you know, consequences or rewards, but ultimately you are driving and so if you don't want, want to be on that road anymore, detour. Hmm. Like take a chance, like take a turn. And I think that that's what I've been willing to do, which is why I think we're coming up on 600 episodes now in That's crazy.

Four years.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow. I mean, like you talked about consistency in your almost 600 episodes are proof [00:07:00] of that, aren't they? Like, as you said, you gave yourself permission to detour and to pivot, to show up for your audience in the way that worked. And um. You also talked about authenticity, and I've, I've been listening to your, um, your podcast and that's something that's really come through.

It's, it's really quite obvious actually listening to you, and I absolutely love that. I think in, in some sense, it takes, it takes courage to, to allow yourself to, to do that when you have so many people listening in and have this lens into. You know, you, your life and what's going on in your space. So I think that's really quite powerful.

George Byrant: Yeah. And I thank you for seeing that. I, I would submit and I would submit to everybody listening though, I think, I think it's harder to be inauthentic.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Yeah. It

George Byrant: requires more effort.

Sadaf Beynon: More effort and energy. Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And I think the other side of that though, is that there's a big [00:08:00] difference between authenticity and intimacy.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: Like I can tell you that my son's homesick. Right? Totally authentic.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: I could choose to tell you that I didn't sleep last night because we were awake 16 times and he is doing this and this and this. But then I'm like kind of a little too far in the weeds

Sadaf Beynon: and I'm like,

George Byrant: oh, now this is just like my therapy couch.

And I'm like, oh, that's not here serving either of us. Right? Yeah. Or you know, I'm very open about my personal life and what I'm navigating with the divorce and becoming a single dad. Right. But it stops at the chapter. It doesn't go into the words in the story. Mm-hmm. Unless it's gonna add context or serve somebody listening the value

Sadaf Beynon: in some sense.

Yeah. Right. A thousand

George Byrant: percent.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And I think that that's what the world craves. Like I was on, you know, your other show with Matt today, and we were talking about trust. Mm-hmm. And how, and I think he wrote a blog post on this, that, um, like 41% of consumers no longer trust corporations.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Mm-hmm. [00:09:00]

George Byrant: You know, we think about this in the world and we think about a podcast which is like, it's like a window into somebody's heart and their soul and their mind and their body if you're willing to let it.

But I. It's also this place where you can tell from a mile away if that person thinks that way or feels that way or operates that way. And we have the ability to like invite people into our living room and not only invite them in, but like, Hey, have a seat. This is who I am. This is what it's like to be here with me.

And I think that that's probably one of the most. Important parts. 'cause I'm friends with so many podcasters that have massive shows. Like two of my friends alone, each of them get 30, 40 million downloads a year.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow.

George Byrant: And the one thing is, I think we all share in common is each one of us has been like quote unquote, canceled at least three times for being authentic.

And I'm like, oh, look at that. There's starting to be a commonality here. Mm. Like there's this level of like, there's a trend authenticity of like, I also have no problem admitting publicly when I'm like, [00:10:00] Hey, you know, I can't believe I used to say that. Or like, if you go back on my podcast, there's an explicit tag on the first 450 episodes.

There is no longer an explicit tab 'cause I don't swear anymore. And God removed swearing from my life. And I'm like, I'm not gonna go erase them. I'm not gonna get rid of 500 episodes. I'm not gonna pay the team to go edit them. Mm-hmm. And I'm allowed to make improvements. And there were people who were like, I can't listen to your show 'cause you swear.

And now I'm like, Hey, by the way, new episodes, you can listen to 'em. And I'm like, reach out to them. And I remember, and they're like, yeah, really? And I'm like, yeah, you thought I'd never do it. It's gone. Right. So I, I think that there's a part there that I think is so important for people.

Sadaf Beynon: How did you realize that podcasting, could actually really benefit your business?

George Byrant: Yeah, I realized it differently than most people I think, who have a podcast. Mm. I only started my podcast right when Covid started, but before that, [00:11:00] I built my entire career by just being a guest on everybody else's podcast.

Okay. And so like, it, it's, we used to keep a running list of every podcast I've been on, and I think six, seven years ago we stopped keeping track and it was over 3000 already.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow.

George Byrant: So I think I'm close to being a guest on like 10,000 podcasts from 2008, 2009 until now, which is crazy. That's like 16 years.

And I feel so old. Um, and I'm not old. That's the craziest part. I'm not even old. Um. But my whole business and career has always been built in every bucket of entrepreneurship. Like I started as a food blogger.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: Then I became just a, like a keynote speaker, consultant, and then I became a, a consulting strategist, and then I became a coach.

Right. And like, that's all I do now is like a coach and consultant help people scale, but in every single business or phase of business, the [00:12:00] number one lever that I would use was other people's podcasts. It was earned media. Mm-hmm. And there's nothing like having 20 minutes to three hours, some podcast I've done, or five where you're in somebody else's living room who has relationships with everybody in their audience.

And by having you, they're giving you a pass of like, you can trust him, you can listen to him, you can learn from him. Instead of having to necessarily build your own home. And so that's how I found out the power of podcasting. Mm-hmm. Like the first time I ever told the world about my eating disorders, after I posted on the internet, went on a podcast the first time I'd ever, you know, celebrated a business, Victor, I was like, I went on a podcast like when I wanted to sell my book and became a New York Times bestseller, I did a podcast tour very intentionally.

Oh wow. And so I think I always knew the power of them.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: But then when it came to my show, I was petrified that even as a guy, and this is the weirdest part, the cognitive dissonance, who [00:13:00] speaks for a living, I. Who got paid to speak and consult was like, nobody's gonna listen because I don't have anything good to say.

I'm gonna run outta things to say, yeah, well everybody's laughing that's listening to this right now. They're like, yeah, I'm sure you run outta things to say. Um, and I was just super, super nervous and, uh, I, I'd owned a podcast microphone for eight years before I launched a show. Never hooked it up ever.

No

Sadaf Beynon: way.

George Byrant: Yep. Eight years. And it was, what it really took is like right around when Covid happened, I was at the height of my career, like I was making almost seven figures a month in clear cash flow. And it all got taken away in, in probably three months. And so I had the bright idea, um, I had the bright idea of like, I'm gonna go hike.

Every day in the mountains till I find clarity. And it was like day 20 or something. I'm just sitting on this rock on the top of a mountain and it was, God just came to me and he's like, why have [00:14:00] you had a hat? Why have you had a podcast mic in your closet for eight years? I was like, the only question that hit me.

And I was like, uh oh, it's time. And then that's when the podcast was born. Wow. And then when I launched it. I basically just recorded like crazy and started publishing it and every time I'd publish a show, I'd send it to anybody I knew I would be in my text messages on my phone all day. I'm like, Hey, it's crazy.

I launched a show. I'd love for you to listen to gimme feedback. Tell me how it can be better. Like what can I improve on? Hmm. Do you know anybody that can benefit from it? Do you have anybody who'd wanna come on the show? And I was hawking it like I was like a street vendor in New York City and I was like, I gotta go.

I gotta go. I gotta go. And you know, truthfully. As a podcast host, I'm the guy who teaches people how to leverage authentic relationships to grow and together business, and it is probably the number one relationship tool that I've ever had access to in my life. I've been able to [00:15:00] become friends with people who used to be my heroes because I wanted to interview them on my show.

I've ended up being flown all over the world. I've ended up with clients who were people who became friends who I thought would've never even spoken to me.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow. That's incredible.

George Byrant: And on the same side, I've gotten to learn. So much like now I selfishly like ask questions for my own desire. I'm like, I wanna know like, how did you figure this out?

Like, how do you do that? Yeah. Like, and it's like having access to like PhDs in their field. Yeah. Great. I'm like, okay, tell me more. That's like, tell me more. Yeah. And they're like, here's my phone number. Just text me if you ever need anything. I use those and I'm like, Hey, that's, remember you said like, I have a question.

I need you to review my blood work. Like where did this come from? Like how do you do that funnel?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And it just became, and I think in this level, it's this incredible tool for me to build relationships with the people I'm learning and meet people that I, I never would've met. Like I met a woman and I just interview on [00:16:00] my show.

Who basically was an immigrant and then from a war torn country, and they've been threatening to kill her for staying in the United States for like 20 years, and she's been fleeing, but teaching people how to step into their dreams and visions, and I'm like bawling my eyes out and I'm like, oh my God.

Like what a gift. Like what a blessing to be able to connect with people. Yeah. All over the world with all these different stories and mm-hmm. I think that's the part that's missed about podcasts is like they are genuinely the number one relationship tool that I could ever have, and then I get to build a relationship with even you.

But then the people listening get to build a relationship with that guest in me. And then when we connect or we're talking in dms, like we have shared things to talk about and find commonalities, and then we become friends or. It, it's really like this, the one degree of separation, doesn't it? But it, it's just paying it forward on so many lenses and the lens of relationships and Yeah.

And I think it's, it's so powerful.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, it [00:17:00] absolutely is. And I wanna come back to that. Um, I'm interested to know how did you get from God showing up and, um, to getting your first few podcasts episodes out there? Like, I think that's. When, when it's been hiding for eight years, that's a long time. How do you just get up and, and go, it was what happens?

Oh,

George Byrant: that's such a good question. I'm so glad that you asked this. Like, here, I, I'm the guy who like knows tech and knows internet and had been doing live videos and, and all of it. So I just made a rule and my rule was simple. No edits, no reshoots, no nothing. Nice. Whatever I record gets posted. I do not get to hit stop.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And I genuinely, I got back that day. I found the mic. I set up a camera. I set up the mic. And luckily Riverside had just launched the platform. You and I are recording in right now. I knew I could record in Zoom, but I was like, I like Riverside. I literally signed up [00:18:00] and then I made a rule that I had to record 20 episodes before I could post it, and I, it's because I was posting three a week, so that gave me basically like six weeks.

And I didn't have a website. I didn't have social media. I'd been off the internet for years minus a Facebook group, and I was like, no one's even gonna find this thing. And so I just said, screw it. Let's go. And I recorded, and I, I literally was just like, no read, redos, no edits, no nothing. Whatever it is, is whatever it is.

And it's like no different than if I cook a recipe for the first time. If you're at my house for dinner and I'm trying a new recipe. There's a chance you could taste it and not like it, but the only way I can make it better is if you tell me. And so I just kind of fell in love with that process and I was like, this can't be perfect.

It's never gonna be, it's not gonna be like my friend shows who have editors and teams. And I was like, just record it and post it.

Sadaf Beynon: Love it.

George Byrant: And that's, [00:19:00] that's genuinely how I did it and

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

George Byrant: You know, I, to tie that to the story I shared earlier, that podcast saved my business. Hmm. Because I went from, I went from making like multiple six figures a month, but I had a mastermind who shut down.

That got shut down because they were all Amazon businesses. My Amazon supplement company went out of business. Every consulting deal I had dried up because they all pulled contracts because Covid had just happened. So nobody knew. They were trying to retain staff. So like, we're out seven. Multiple seven figures.

And I was like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do. And so all I did on that podcast was I was like, if I can help you in any way, just shoot me an email here, shoot me an email here. Oh, amazing. And over the first 30 episodes, I ended up just saying the same thing. And then I got a lot of emails and everybody was struggling with the same thing.

And I was like, cool, I'm gonna do a Zoom call with all of us. Mm-hmm. And we had 200 people show up on that Zoom call. [00:20:00] I basically coached for like eight hours and I wrote down everything they said and I turned it into an outline on the call. And I was like, guys, I can, I can teach you how to fix all of this.

Like this is easy for me. And I was like, who would want that? And everyone's like, yeah. And I was like, and I did the math and I did this on the call and I was like, this would take about 42 videos for me to hit every one of these things. Wow. And I was like, would you guys pay for this? And they're like, yeah.

I'm like, somebody give me a number. That's fair. And someone's like 750 bucks. And I'm like, done. I was like, if 10 of you say yes, I'll record this tomorrow. And of the 200 people on the call, 198 of them said yes.

Sadaf Beynon: No way. That's amazing. And so the next

George Byrant: day I recorded, edited 42 videos. Shortest was like 12 minutes.

The longest was like 45 minutes. Built a website. Uploaded them all to the website, built a course platform, and in a span of [00:21:00] 20 hours, went from nothing to build. And then I sent it out to everybody and then they all started going through it and we would run a call and have feedback, and then goodness started telling people, which then some of those people turned into my next mastermind members and some of my clients.

And that's when I became a coach. And yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: that's an incredible story all from. Podcast being obedient and taking out that podcast, Mike. I love it. And here's

George Byrant: the craziest part. It's like, like, not like those episodes, like I do know some of the numbers. Like I don't think I had an episode break a hundred downloads for the first two years, but I also will remind everybody listening that 50 of the right people is worth more than 50,000 of the wrong people.

Mm-hmm. If you do the math on what I just said, 22 to 25 podcast episodes to get people on a Zoom call, 200 times $750 and nothing had more than 35 downloads.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: So it's really, [00:22:00] that was a very, very, it was almost, I mean, it was basically a hundred and no 300 something grand close to that. Just from that and like at the level that I was at, no, it was a stop gap.

Mm-hmm. And then I got to build again and, and do that. Yeah. But I think a lot of people fall into this trap of like, they want to hit a home run before they ever hit a base hit. Right. And they wanna run the marathon, but like, you cannot jump to the finish line.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: You have to genuinely go through the mile markers and like, at some point mm-hmm.

Every podcast that you admire, they started with one episode. Yeah. They started with just a couple downloads and yeah, some of them that were media backed or had other followings and platforms, of course they flooded it over. But like there's always the first,

Sadaf Beynon: there's always a starting point.

George Byrant: Always.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, I've wanted, as an entrepreneur my whole career to be like, can I just have the finish line please? Yeah. And then I forget that like God doesn't give me things that I don't have the character and scars to [00:23:00] maintain yet.

Sadaf Beynon: I like that,

George Byrant: and so I like that. Like, oh, that's why it took

Sadaf Beynon: so

George Byrant: long, or why now I'm getting guests like that.

Or every guest that shows up, like I used to have to go out and pitch people. We turn down 25 a week.

Sadaf Beynon: No way.

George Byrant: It's our inbox is just like, boom, can we come on the show? Can we come? And I was like, I, I'm not gonna do 365 podcasts. Like I'm not, Joe, we're all good, right? Like, I wanna talk to everybody so bad, but I'm like, I can't.

Right? So there's things that like just come with time. Mm-hmm. And putting that in consistently.

Sadaf Beynon: That's an incredible story, George. I love that. I really do. I wanna go back to what you were saying before about podcasting being such a powerful tool.

George Byrant: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: And I think you're absolutely right. It is. It's, it's a game changer when it's done right.

And you, you know, you talked about earlier on about the consistency aspect, the [00:24:00] authenticity and being curious and wanting to grow. I think all of that added together. It's um. It is absolutely a game changer. What would you say are some of the biggest mistakes you see other podcasters making?

George Byrant: Hmm, that's a great question.

That's a great question. Um, the short answer is, the biggest one is, is treating it like a transaction. Mm-hmm. Right? Like on both sides. Like if somebody's taking the time to come on your show, treat them like they were walking into your home. Right. And if you are taking the time to go on somebody's show, treat it like you're visiting their home.

Like bring a gift, like bring a thank you, like bring that level of energy. And for those that have people who listen, which we all do understand that every single one of those people listening is the start of [00:25:00] something great. And their attention matters 'cause they don't have to give it to you.

Sadaf Beynon: So

George Byrant: I'd say the biggest mistake that I see people make is they lose perspective and by losing perspective, the second mistake is they play the short game over the long game, they'll become reactive and use the podcast as like a place to push or like, I want more ads in it, or I want more X in it.

And I was like, how do we feel? When we get an ad on our phone on YouTube, or we pay for premium to not get it, or we complain at the movie theater or like when we're in the middle of our favorite show on Prime video and then an ad pops up, we do something else, right? Like, yeah, there's the short game. And there's the long game.

Mm-hmm. And I think what ends up happening is that if you treat it like a Transac transaction or you lose perspective, we become reactive. And we think the podcast is really just a, a transactional tool or like mm-hmm. I get these numbers up, I can get more media buyers, I can get better [00:26:00] sponsors, they'll pay me more for episodes.

And I'm not against sponsorships whatsoever. Mm-hmm. But I think what everybody has to understand underneath all of it is that success of your podcast. Is relegated to the success of the relationships of the people listening. And if that is not the number one priority, everything that follows has no chance of working.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: Nothing. And I've seen people take their shows that have had like the best shows ever, and then they sell out to ads and everybody who listened three years, five years, gone. Hmm. The moment you lose them, you're not getting them back. Even if you say you're sorry because they put their attention somewhere else.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And there's so much out there to give attention to.

George Byrant: We are in a world that competing, and I think the mistake that everybody makes is they think they're competing for attention. You're not competing for attention, you're competing for trust. 'cause trust is what keeps attention. [00:27:00]

Sadaf Beynon: I like that.

George Byrant: And so the third thing is, is not understanding the game that people play and what game we're playing.

I know from the bottom of my heart that the new people who find my podcast don't find it because they're searching Spotify and Apple for the titles of my show. They find it 'cause somebody who listens, shared it with somebody they know.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And at some degree that Ripple went out.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, sure. And I'll be

George Byrant: honest, with podcasters, sometimes it can feel like an echo chamber.

It is, and this is why I use Lighthouse as a branding. My favorite lighthouse quote is The best podcast quote I could ever give you. A lighthouse gives light because giving light is its nature. It's not interested in who gets it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: Meaning you consistently give it out and spread it out. And know that there's a ripple happening.

But just 'cause somebody listens to, and I've had this [00:28:00] 500 episodes, and then emails me and I'm like, where have you been the other 4 99? They're like, I've just been listening. I had nothing to respond to. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I've asked in every podcast episode to send me a message so I don't feel alone.

And they're like, yeah, but this one. And I'm like, oh, there's a whole lot of things that happen that we don't know.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: Right. And people that are listening that we, we don't know. And so I think that like at a high level, those would be the mistakes that that I, that I see people making. And I, and I know some of them might even be ethereal for people, but when you really, really think about it, oh, and I'll give you a tangible one.

They spend more time recording than they do distributing. Right. The success of your show mm-hmm. Is not boiled down to you hitting, publish. It's really boiling down to how many times after you hit publish, you unapologetically [00:29:00] and aggressively sell that show to people who need it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: The promotion of your show is worth its weight in gold compared to the publishing of your show.

Like to the point where I have keyboard shortcuts on my phone. So I know that if you ask me a mindset question, I type app Mindset on my phone and it pre-populates an episode I save. So when I'm talking to somebody, they're like, oh. And I'm like, I'll be standing with people at the coffee shop. And they'll ask me a question about like book.

I'm like, oh, I did an episode on my favorite books on my podcast. Do you wanna listen to it? They're like, oh, I'd love it. And then I like at books and it sends in the link when I text to them like, we need to be the realtors of our real estate that's actively for sale, where we're trying to get people to come occupy it.

And I think that's a good one. So many people, like, I'll be honest, if you're American, you've seen the movie Field of Dreams. I joke about this, but Kevin Costner lied to you. If you build it, they don't come, if you build it with [00:30:00] them. They'll come and they'll bring other people with them.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And so I think about your podcast as it's a piece of real estate that you are the real estate agent of.

And I love that it's built, and I love that it's listed. But if nobody knows that home is for sale, nobody can come walk through it to make you an offer. And the offer that you are trying to get is their attention and trust to feel safe sitting in that home. So like invite them into your pool party. But they have to know you have a pool.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. They have

George Byrant: to know you have a house.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I'd

George Byrant: say that's the biggest one because people think it's like, oh, I posted, it's up on Lipson, it's up on X, it's up on blank, it's on Spotify. And I'm like. Well, they're not interested in promoting your show for you. You have to be interested in promoting your show for you.

And so it's, it's not just social, it's not just my Instagram story. It's everywhere. I personally think if we could track this, which we [00:31:00] probably could, but I'm not into it. I've gotten more podcast listeners through real life relationships than I have from the internet.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: I can tell you right now, personally, there's 50 Delta flight attendants who listen to my podcast.

Do you wanna know if, the thing they didn't ask me was, do you have a podcast? No. I'd be like, hi, Sadaf. Like, nice to meet you. Thank you for taking care of me. Thank you for the Coke Zero. Like, how's your day going? And like, amazing. I'm like, oh, how long you been a flight attendant? Oh, I'm blank. Like, what are your hobbies?

I'm like, oh, I love this and this and this. I'm like. Oh, you study psychology. That's interesting. Me too. Because I have this podcast like you have a podcast? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, hey, you wanna listen to this episode? Like it's, it's genuinely like in every single piece, which goes back to one of the first things I said is that authenticity is the most important part.

Because if you can't unapologetically advertise your [00:32:00] home, no one's gonna find your home.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And like my podcast is something I'm proud of. Like I get emotional when I say it and not because it's perfect and not because I have all the answers or there's the best advice, but it's real and authentic and it genuinely is an embodiment of what it would feel like to be at a kitchen table with me.

And so when you have that, you realize that every single thing in your life is an opportunity to spread it. And my mission on the podcast is not to sell you. If you listen to it, I don't sell anything. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nothing. There's no ads. I'm like, Hey, if you wanna come to an event and come, we'd love to have you.

Right. If I can help you shoot me a dm, but it's to be of service. Yeah. And so then I look at every conversation in the world. Like if I'm in a conversation with somebody like God, I'm really struggling with mindset. And I'm like, God, I have an episode where I interviewed this really good mindset person. I was like, Hey, I have an episode like on my show, can I send it to you?

And they're like, I would love that. I go [00:33:00] find it. I send it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: So I've also built my podcast to be like a prescription cabinet of things that help people. And the way that I see it is if I have the cure for cancer, I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut. So like, get outta my way. You could be a barista.

I'll tell you right now, like I live in Montana, my son's teachers listen to my podcast, the Coffee Baristas. Listen to my podcast. The service manager at Subaru listens to podcast. I was at church the other night and three of them were like. We didn't even know you had a podcast. We're listening now and I'm like, oh no, these are my church guys too.

Now. I'm like all embarrassed. I, I'm proud of it. Yeah. And I think that that's the point, is like everybody listening to a previous point is like, it's your house. Mm-hmm. You get to decorate.

Sadaf Beynon: I think. I, I think you're, um, to tie it back to something you said before, so the authenticity part, but there's also the part about.[00:34:00]

Having genuine connection with people, and I think that's what makes people actually wanna go find it. Like, yeah, you have a podcast, lots of people have a podcast, but why do they wanna go find yours? I. It's because you've built that connection with them.

George Byrant: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and I think that that's the point.

And even, 'cause I know there's gonna be somebody listening, so, well, my whole show is strategies and tactics. Amazing. How you deliver them is your personality.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: Right? Like, just don't make your podcast something and go read on Google. Like add a story, add some, add some humor, right? Like you can add personality in the first 30 seconds.

Like I have plenty of people that have really good podcasts that are like, they are scripted.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: There's also human in the beginning and they're like, Hey guys, like stoked today's show. Like this happened, spilled my coffee, wife's mad at me. Got a new truck, like flat top. I'm like, okay, I can't keep up with all this, but I'm glad that everybody loves you.

And then it turns into like this robotic show, but their audience loves that. Like boom, boom, boom. Or even like some of the [00:35:00] history ones where they're just like reading fact after fact after fact. But then they'll add ad-lib, right? There's, there's always space in whatever podcast, in whatever industry.

For you, and that's the one thing that makes it unique is like your authenticity is the unique DNA or the fingerprint that nobody else can have. Nobody else can have it.

Sadaf Beynon: It's interesting though, isn't it, because that is absolutely true, but how often do we, when we're starting out, do we look at all these other people?

You know, these, um, successful podcasters who, who are already doing it, and you wanna mimic them because you think, oh, they're doing it so well. People love what they're doing. There must be something in it. And you lose yourself in that you, and sometimes it can time to come out of that and be authentic.

Have the courage to be authentic.

George Byrant: A thousand percent. And here's the thing I've said to people. I'm friends with most of those people. Here's the thing, you are looking at their after state. Go compare yourself to their before state and see what happens.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, [00:36:00] listen to those first episodes.

George Byrant: That's the part that people miss.

Is like if you went and compared to their before state and you imitated, which is a form of flattery done, you'd be a lot further along and a lot faster. Yeah. But everybody wants the finish line and to your point, what we tolerate, we end up embracing. So we try to become like somebody else and we lose our, lose ourselves in that process.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And it's like, well, this is how they do their intros. I'm like, great. You will never let me come into your home and tell you how to raise your children.

Sadaf Beynon: That's right. Yeah.

George Byrant: So don't let me tell you how to run your intro, right? Like, what do you wanna say? How do you wanna say now? Are there best practices?

A thousand percent. You also live in a world of ai. Yeah. Where you can literally, and I did this the other day to prove a point to somebody, I was like. [00:37:00] Find to be their top five podcast competitors in their space. And like, yeah, I'm like, cool. I need you to go analyze every single one of their intros and episodes and give me a breakdown of exactly what principles they hit and examples of how they hit them.

Mm-hmm. And then they're like. That took like one minute. I'm like, yeah, do you see principle? Right? They let the audience know mm-hmm. That the episodes for them, because it fits this. Mm-hmm. They share what this is. They open this, and I was like, I'm not gonna give you a script. Now, how would you say that if we were having a cup of coffee and you wanted me to listen to the show?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And they're like, oh. I'd be like, dude, that question you asked me today, like, you're struggling with this and struggling with this like. You have to listen to this episode because I talked about this, I answered this. I asked these three questions and you'll never believe it because that thing I struggled with for an hour, she said, I can fix in five minutes.

So here's a link to go listen to the show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And they're like, oh, right. And like even when I'm like recording my podcast, like there's a [00:38:00] dirty little secret. I don't tell this very often. It's hard to record solo shows with no audience. It's hard. You gimme a person in front of me. Game over. Right? Yeah.

You can tell, right? Yeah. There's been more times than not where I would literally email you and be like, Hey, sit off. Listen, I have to record a podcast today. Can you jump on Riverside with me and just listen. Don't respond, don't speak. I'm gonna mute you. I just need a face, but I need a face. Yeah. And you'd be like, yeah, I've done that more times than I've not done that.

I don't need to do it anymore. But now what I imagine. Is like whoever prompted the podcast idea, I imagine they're sitting in front of me and I imagine we're sitting at a coffee shop or sitting at my kitchen table and I'm like, how would I talk to them?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. If

George Byrant: they were in my kitchen, like what would I say?

What would I ask them? And that's a human element is a really, really powerful way.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. To

George Byrant: be able to do it.

Sadaf Beynon: That's a really good tip. I like it. Yeah. So actually, [00:39:00] George, if someone wanted to improve their podcast today, what's one simple action you think that they can do?

George Byrant: I love this question. They are not gonna like the answer.

You are not gonna like the answer. You ready? Let's hear it. Yep. Listen to your own show. Ugh. You are right. I don't like it. Episodes as a consumer, but here's the rule.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: With childlike curiosity, you cannot judge it. You cannot shame yourself. You cannot, and by the way, I've seen your kids running behind, so I can be really mean about this and be nice at the same time.

If your kid comes home and their writing is bad and you're trying to teach them, you would never allow them to shame themselves into getting better and practicing.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: Podcasting, speaking, being able to articulate information, put thing in frameworks like it's a muscle. Like, I've been speaking for 20 something years now, and I still feel like a kindergartner, and I'm also aware I'm really good at it.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. [00:40:00]

George Byrant: And I still feel like a kindergartner. And I only started watching my own talks back like two years ago. I couldn't do it. The moment I did, I instantaneously started getting better. Oh wow. And so step number one is be curious, but you have to make a rule with yourself. You cannot judge yourself, fault yourself, blame yourself, or shame yourself.

And so I want you to imagine, even if you don't have kids, I. That you're six years old and you're the parent and you're just watching them do their homework, and you're like, oh, that's cute. I reward you for trying, and this has been really, really good and I want you to consume it.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: Like you be somebody who listened because truthfully, you're going to attract a lot of people that see the world the way that you do.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And so like, can you make it all the way through? Is it memorable for you and all you do? Is you take notes and you don't try to change all of them. You just pick one thing at a time. I. And you're like, Hey, in the next [00:41:00] episode, I'm gonna actually make the intro better. Because like I realized it made no sense with what I talked about of the episode.

I'm like, oh, amazing. And then, you know, tweak. And then even for me, over time, I realized that if I didn't have some canned questions for guests, they would stop talking when I thought they would keep going.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And then I'd be like, oh. And then I'd make up a question, but it was like down a different vein.

Yeah. And so then there was a season where I kept like right next to me on a piece of paper like. Kind of like 9 1 1 questions of like, it doesn't matter what happens if I ask this.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And then I learn little tricks of like, can you expand on that? And now I'm good, right? I just put it back in their core.

But that's a muscle that like comes with time, right? And so number one is you get to listen. Because the second most valuable place to go is to your actual audience. But you won't be able to hear your audience's [00:42:00] feedback if you don't give yourself feedback first. And so it's yourself, then your audience and, and sometimes people you love.

So like I'll record an episode and the first person I'll send it to is my partner.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And I was like, Hey, I just did this episode. And like trusting your intuition in business. I. On a thin air, like I feel like I pulled it outta my butt. I do not know if it's valuable. And I'm like, do you have 30 minutes to listen to this at two x?

Yeah. And she's like, I got you. And then she'll write back and she's like, I can't believe you sent this to me. Of course, post this. And I'm like, are you sure? And she's like, I'm not saying it again. I'm like, okay. And then there's other times where she'd be like. Yeah. You know, no one's gonna get mad at you, but I don't think anybody's gonna listen to this either.

And I'm like, noted. And now I've gotten to a point where like my barometer's pretty spot on. Like I know now. And here's, this is really interesting. It's probably gonna blow your mind if I get to the end of a show when I'm recording it and I'm like, I can't post [00:43:00] that.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: It is typically my best shows. If I get to an end of a show and I'm like, that is the best show I've ever done, don't post it.

The worst show I've ever done. I cannot post it. I can't.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And I'll take that show knowing, and I'll have somebody listen to it and then they're like, eh. So then I'll plug it into chat sheet T. And I'm like, can you gimme all the main takeaways from this? And I will do it again. Mm-hmm. And I will do it again.

And so the second answer to your question is, how can you improve more swings at bet? Truthfully, if you're a podcast host

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

George Byrant: I'd say for every podcast you record, be a guest on at least three to five other podcasts.

Sadaf Beynon: And how do you do that?

George Byrant: You ask. You ask, you ask, you ask. I have been over, I think. A hundred people's number one podcast, like their first podcast where they're like, Hey, I am launching a podcast.

I'm like, can I come on? They're like, no, you're like [00:44:00] successful. And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm still your friend. I was like, so what? And they're like, would you do that? Like I was on three last week. They're like, yeah, like anytime. You can even do it with friends and have 'em like mock interview you, but like it is a gym.

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: And I find like the more that you get into it, the better you find cadence. You can read energy, you'll realize like when a host wants you to fill more space, like you, we are like George, go like, I'm all in for this. Mm-hmm. I'll, I'll tilt you. And Oh, then when you see them like interrupting, so you'll start to learn like your cadence and you know, you'll start to learn like length of shows where I'll like ask a host like, how long is the show?

And they're like, oh, we try to keep it under 20. So then I'm like, oh, got it. My answers. Yeah, less than a minute each. And they're like, we don't have a time cap. And I'm like, oh, my schedule's clear for three hours. We're going deep. Right? Yeah. And you just get to practice it, right? Mm-hmm. And it's no different.

Like if you cook dinner in your kitchen for your family every night, you know where everything is in every drawer. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: The

George Byrant: moment you go to [00:45:00] a friend's house, could you still cook dinner? Same recipe a thousand percent, but you're like, Hey, what drawer is this in? Like, Hey, where do I put this?

Sadaf Beynon: It takes the longer.

George Byrant: But then the more that you do it, the better. And then eventually you realize, hey, if I go to any kitchen, as long as I bring this knife, this apron, this thermometer, I can cook in their kitchen. And it starts to get really, really, really easy. And so you practice and you create opportunities. And so tactically, if you have somebody on your show.

That has a podcast. I don't ever ask them to have me on theirs. I just let that naturally happen. Mm-hmm. But I'd be like, Hey, do you know anybody who I'd make a good guest for their show?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And I don't ask them themselves. Like even if you had a show, I'd be like, Hey, do you know anybody like that? I could be a good guest and like I would love to do it.

I'll send 'em a message. I'll say, you sent me. But like, I really love spreading this message. And then anytime somebody interviews me, the first thing they say, Hey, is there anything I can do for you? 1000%. And I was like, how aggressive can I be?

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: And they're like, whatever you want. [00:46:00] I'm like, great. I need at least 10 yeses to podcast, you know?

And they're like, what? I'm like, do you know 10 podcasters? Like, yeah. I'm like, I want 10 yeses, so how can I support you? I'm like, what? Email? I'm like Here. And then they'll send 10 emails and be like, Hey, you need to have George. You need to have George. You need to have George.

Sadaf Beynon: Amazing.

George Byrant: Because the worst thing that somebody can say to me is, no.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Yeah. And I

George Byrant: think if you lead with value, you go all the way back to the beginning of the short show that I went over like I always do.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. All

George Byrant: the way back to like don't be transactional. Yeah. Be transformational. When I go on somebody's show, I pour into their audience, I pour into them, I talk to them before the show, like, Hey, can I help you with their business?

Like, Hey, this would be helpful. This would be, boom. So when it gets to that point, they're like, I would love to make an intro for you. Mm-hmm. I would love to share and over time. You basically get in and if you want a little hack too, if you have a podcast, no matter what size. The amount of podcast agencies, placement agencies mm-hmm.

That are constantly looking for [00:47:00] places to send their people.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

George Byrant: Is you just get listed. Like I, I love, I have a friend scout when we became friends, 'cause she has a podcast agency, but we said yes to one of their guests after like, they submitted like 20, I didn't know. And it was like the best guest ever.

And I was like. Oh my God. So I responded to the email and I was like, listen, if you can find me as many of these as possible, like you will forever have a yes in my calendar. I don't even review them.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And then sure as crap, like I've probably had 30 people on the show from them, and she's like, who do you want?

Who do you want? Who do you want? And then she's like, George, can I do anything? I'm like, actually, yeah. You talk to a lot of podcasters.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: Can you tell them I'd love to come on their show. And so when, now when other podcasters are like, Hey, we're having one of your people. Do you wanna anybody else?

She's like, oh, I have this friend George, like he has a podcast. And like you start to leverage relationships and then you just like expand, expand, expand. But you still have to start.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And the very beginning, as you said, to have that it's a muscle that needs, that needs [00:48:00] to. Grow.

George Byrant: Yeah. And if I could make a book recommendation.

Mm-hmm. And it's an entrepreneurial book, but I think it applies to podcasters more than anything. It's called The Go-Giver by Bob Berg. Okay. And it's really a beautiful parable. It's like the Alchemist of Ever and the Alchemist just a little bit shorter. Okay. And it's on the five laws that basically make you a Go-Giver, which is the law of reciprocity in the world and how to operate in business.

That book

Sadaf Beynon: Oh wow,

George Byrant: is a required read for any single, every single person I coach. What podcasts really are, is relationship banks.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

George Byrant: And that book is a manual on how to leverage podcasts, both with the relationship with yourself, with your guests, mm-hmm. With you going on other ones. And also the relationship with your audience.

Right. Likes amazing. It's very much a bank. And so that book I think would be massively beneficial. And for everybody listening, it'll give you a little hack too. That's a two hour read. I think it's an hour and 51 minutes on Audible, if I remember, or something like that. You can also use [00:49:00] CHATT PT to give you a summary in the big key ideas before you read it if you really, really want to.

Or you can go on YouTube and there's probably like 15 to 30 like 10 minute summaries of the book. But get the big idea. And if you're using CHATT PT, also, I'm gonna give you a prompt and say, since you know me so well, Chatt PT, I want you to tell me how I can use this to implement this into how I run my podcast, but be ruthless with me.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

George Byrant: Like I have no feelings and be honest with me. So if you're gonna use Chachi pt, let it roast you too and have it call you out on your weak spots and on your blind spots and be like, okay, well yeah, but based on the questions you asked me, you really struggle with consistency, George. So let's, let's be honest here, like you're not gonna really use this muscle.

So if you want to use this muscle, here's a plan that you can implement. It's really powerful if you use it the right way. And I found Sadaf, to your point earlier of like, I don't wanna listen to my own episode. I have no problem with a robot roasting me for some reason. I do not take it personally.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.[00:50:00]

George Byrant: And so I use it a lot to improve my episodes. Okay. And to improve my speeches. And to improve my ads and like copy that I'm writing and I'm like, Hey. I want you to imagine you're this entrepreneur and I just screwed you over and you're really, really mad at me. Would this post be enough to turn your No back into a yes.

And you have a connect? No. You feel transactional like you're a snake. And I was like, how can I fix it? Yeah. And it's like just really constantly massaging these muscles everywhere that we can, and I think AI is probably one of the most slept on weapons for even therapy.

Sadaf Beynon: I love that. You know. Listening to you.

It's um, it's what you've just said now goes back to what you said at the beginning about being curious and being, you know, wanting to grow. And that's is just so clear.

George Byrant: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: It comes through. It really does.

George Byrant: I always joke with people that humility is the honey for God. I. Humility creates the space for something new to enter.

But it starts with us being curious, like, I think curiosity is the same vein as [00:51:00] humility. Like Mm. I, I know what I know, but I know there's a whole lot of stuff I don't know

Sadaf Beynon: that I don't know.

Yeah. George, I think I could keep going forever, but I know, um, I'm really conscious of the time. This, this has been gold.

It really has. If our, if our listeners wanna listen and to learn more from you, what's the best place they can find you and, um. Yeah, connect with you.

George Byrant: It's a great question. If you wanna see the pinkest website and the pinkest podcast decals ever, it's mindofgeorge.com, which we only named the podcast that name because I was like.

How can I encompass me changing my ideas all the time and never have to change the title of the show. And they're like, mind of George. And I was like, oh, we just call it the label of my mind and I can talk about anything I want. So that's actually why the podcast is called The Mind of George Show. I love it.

Um, and so if you're listening, I always joked, I joked with Matt earlier too, since everybody here knows Matt, I'm sure. Um, I was like, you either think I belong in a straight jacket or I don't. And either way, you're [00:52:00] right. I'm sure. And so my website, mindofgeorge.com, it has the podcast like 600 episodes.

I focus on mindset. I'm sure you can tell relationships. Mm-hmm. I'm sure you can tell. And building and scaling your business with customer journey and marketing. And those are the things I share freely and it's all free on my podcast. And then the one place I say is, if you have a question, if I can answer any questions, if I can help you in any way, my Instagram is the best place to get ahold of me, to slide me a dm, ask me your question, let me know how I can support and.

I will do the best I can to support you.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. And for those tuning in, you'll find all the links and details in the description. And I can also attest that everything you said there about your podcast, it really, it really does hit all of those and truly delivers.

George Byrant: Yeah, George. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me sit off like it's always a pleasure.

Oh, I love talking to you. So this,

Sadaf Beynon: this was real fun. Thank you.

George Byrant: You're so welcome. And do those

Sadaf Beynon: and do those listening. If today's conversation sparked something for you, let's talk. Podcasting can be a game changer [00:53:00] as you've heard for your business, and I'd love to help you make it work for you. So that's it for today.

Thanks for listening, and bye for now.