Why Agencies Are Betting on Podcasts | Chase Clymer

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Want to know how ecommerce brands scale successfully while avoiding costly mistakes? Chase Clymer, co founder of Electric Eye Agency and host of the Honest Ecommerce Podcast, has spent years helping brands optimize their Shopify stores and grow revenue. Through his podcast, he shares real, no fluff insights from industry experts giving ecommerce businesses the strategies they need to thrive.

I'm Sadaf Beynon and this is Podjunction Podcast, where we explore how entrepreneurs, CEOs, and business leaders use podcasting to grow their brands, build authority, and connect with their audience. Chase, welcome to the show.

Chase Clymer: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you. It's our pleasure. Chase, you've built a successful agency helping ecommerce brands grow your, and your podcast Honest ecommerce has become a go to resource for founders.

Who are looking for, um, real actionable insights. [00:01:00] So let's start with the big picture. Why did you start the podcast? And how does it fit into Electric Eye's overall growth strategy?

Chase Clymer: Great question. Uh, I started it because Andrew told me to. Andrew is our project manager. Um, so this was over seven years ago, um, and basically I was, I didn't like writing back then.

Uh, as I've matured, I've gotten a lot better at writing and now I kind of like, I like the challenge of it now, which is good. Um, but back then I just detested it. And so, um, some, when we went into this agency, we. knew that like there was some sort of like we had to make content. And so that like kind of defaulted to we had to make blogs, right?

And it was always the last thing that anyone would do. And so podcasting was still relatively new back then. But like still I knew of a lot of people in the space that had one and I was [00:02:00] like, Oh, I don't want to just do another podcast. And he was like, well, you're not writing blogs and I know you'll talk.

So let's just try it for a while. See what happens. Uh, so we just started it and there was no real, uh, differentiation between our podcast and anything else. There was no real strategy behind what, who the guests would be or what the topics would be. Uh, Honestly, the first couple dozen episodes were just, you know, us winging it and figuring it out.

But, uh, we never stopped. Uh, we, I think we put out an episode almost every week since missed maybe one or two in the last seven years. Um, but it's, uh, yeah, I have to thank Andrew.

Sadaf Beynon: That's, that's great. I love how you've just kind of, um, decided that you need to create content. Here's a better way to do it then.

Blogs because it comes easier to you and you've just tried it out and, and seen where it goes in seven years later, here you are. I love that. So at what point did you think actually, this [00:03:00] is, this is working and we can really make it, um, a marketing tool for our business? At what point did those pieces come together for you?

Chase Clymer: Uh, great question. All right. So like, um, Like I said the first couple dozen episodes, so let's just say the first year, uh, I didn't. have a clue, kind of the, the, the audience or the reach of the thing. Um, and so maybe around the about a year before the pandemic, I started like playing around the idea of like, Oh, like maybe we could get podcast sponsors for this.

And then everyone wanted to know our analytics and I started to look into things a little bit more. I was like, Oh, like we built an audience now in the past. So we probably started the podcast in 2017. So about three years later, as the pandemic gets going. I am looking at the analytics a lot more and having conversations with people about sponsoring the podcast and the podcast had enough reach in our space, which also like, I'll back this up.

[00:04:00] Like we're a top 5 percent podcast. But what that means is there's a lot of really bad podcasts, but our audience is so niche that it still resonates with the goals of a lot of our sponsors, which are basically ecommerce, SAS brands, uh, want to get in front of our audience because our audience is ecommerce entrepreneurs.

Um, but so around the pandemic, I realized that. Well, if these sponsors are interested in the show, like, what else can we do with this show? And so before that, I had no rhyme or reason around who would be on the show. We had no outreach strategy about how to get guests on the show. It was still kind of just flying by the seat of our pants with no real strategy.

Um, but once we realized that people wanted to pay to advertise on the show, Uh, we started to think about like, well, what else? About the show is like, are we not thinking about the right way? And that's when the [00:05:00] strategy really started to come into place.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay, so that's about three years in, you said, right?

Chase Clymer: Mm hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay, so up until that point then, how was it navigating? I was just

Chase Clymer: recording episodes and publishing them and ignoring it. Just doing nothing. Just putting in the work. Becoming a better interviewer, for sure. Learning how to read off a teleprompter, which is one of my favorite skills I've ever learned.

Um It just came in handy last week at a conference. Uh, so I, that, that was, but it was just, honestly, it was putting the work and just building kind of this backlog of episodes. And as I alluded to earlier, there's a lot of people in the space that had podcasts and in those three, four years, uh, a lot of those people stopped existing.

And so the first. I think the thing about this is podcast is almost akin to SEO. It is a long game and it is about consistency more than anything.

Sadaf Beynon: You said about, um, [00:06:00] upskilling in using the teleprompter. Tell me about that. What, how did, what was that process like?

Chase Clymer: It's, well, reading intros for my guests and, uh, their bios and then also reading ads.

I remember ad reads used to take me, like, I would be frustrated, sit down and I'd be kind of goofing over the, the read and adding an ums and what's and not, and just not being good at it. But now I'm doing ad reads in like one take and then I'll just do another one just in case that Jared, my editor wants it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, it's, it's so true what you just said about consistency, even in things like using the teleprompter, isn't it? Like the more you do it. The more natural it becomes, as it is with all parts of

Chase Clymer: Yeah, now it's just second nature and it's, it's super easy to do. Same with, same with honestly just hosting and doing podcasting in general.

It's, I've done between being a guest on other shows and our shows, I, I easily over 500 interviews either way. And so just that, you know, if I, I'm, [00:07:00] I think I'm approaching 10, 000 hours in podcasting. I'm going to get to that expert status soon.

Sadaf Beynon: That's pretty amazing. I love that. You were saying that it was, you know, you didn't have a strategy for the first little while, well, first three years, and then you started seeing the, the benefit of, or the, um, not the benefit, the necessity for it in order to start getting the sponsors in.

So what was that, um, that like, you know, going from no strategy to creating a strategy, what, what did that look like for you, that process?

Chase Clymer: Yeah. Um, all right. So first and foremost. You can probably get sponsors for your shows, but like, don't, it's not going to be a moneymaker unless like you're building a media company and like, this is your main thing.

Right. So you got to remember like my main thing is building and optimizing Shopify experiences for brands. That's what. My agency does really well, and that's where, like, my skill set lies, is like, is strategizing behind [00:08:00] those types of projects. So, um, once we started to really look at the podcast as, you know, a tool for the agency and not just, like, the vehicle in which we were creating content, uh, we started to do a few things differently.

Most notably, is we started to really refine and go after the audience like the brands that we are interviewing are basically our ideal client

Sadaf Beynon: on

Chase Clymer: the show. So before that, it was not, that was not the case. We were just happy to get anybody on the show. These days, we are going after brands that we could see working with our agency, Electric Eye.

And so, Oftentimes, you know, these are larger brands. These are eCommerce first brands. These are brands that, uh, you know, like historically it was they were on Shopify, but now we do a [00:09:00] whole lot of migrations. So now we're going after a lot of migration, like, so, you know, I'm going after brands where I can already see what the project would be and like what the conversation potentially could be afterwards.

And now it's not a hard sell. It's more about increasing your surface luck area and building genuine relationships with these brands. Uh, as it is like, you know, a hard and fast like lead gen strategy, but it does open doors a lot quicker than your typical cold outreach approach.

Um, so there's only 50 Two or 56 weeks in a year. I don't know math, but that's the, you know, that's the amount of brands that you're going to be meeting within a year. So we don't do any interviews on the main feed that aren't brands that we could see ourselves working with. Right. So that was one major shift is like, we pushed all extra interviews, be it with the SAS apps that we're partnered with or other agencies that were friendly with or, or freelancers or just subject matter [00:10:00] experts.

We pushed all of those. off the main feed and into bonus episodes. Uh, and we released those kind of every other week. Um, and usually have a backlog of those as well, but the main feed is specifically strategically brands that we could see ourselves working with. And then, so knowing who we want on the show, we had then adopted an outreach strategy.

So we are emailing about a hundred brands. And reaching out on LinkedIn weekly, uh, and I've got an assistant that helps me and that's his entire job is to do that for us weekly. Um, it's not his entire job. He's got other clients, but that, like for us, that's, that's what he's doing. So we have a, we have a specific outreach strategy around being a guest on the podcast.

And then after they're a guest, uh, obviously we're building that relationship, but also we have like a, an offer that we pitch them afterwards as a thank you. Um, which [00:11:00] does lead to people working with us. Oftentimes it leads to conversations that then a year or two later leads to actual business. This is definitely a long tail.

Kind of outreach strategy, but it builds more genuine relationships and more genuine conversations And again, it's we're not we're not cheap by any means what we're doing Isn't like a widget or an app where it's a lot easier to get someone to sign off on it.

Sadaf Beynon: I love that I love your your strategy because you have so many touch points With a potential client and, um, having those conversations with them that are not necessarily where you're pushing sales.

You're just getting to know them and building that rapport and networking with them. That is, that's brilliant. Have you seen a lot of direct business growth come from that, whether it's with clients or partnerships or just networking, like authority building from the podcast?

Chase Clymer: Uh, yeah, all of the above. It, the, uh, a podcast [00:12:00] is going to be. If done right and consistently, it will be one of the most valuable tools within your business. So to all of the things you just said, we've had people work with us because they had listened to the podcast for years. We are a better partner to all of our partners, but I can feature, like, for example, we have a partner that's going to announce a big feature set soon, and we'll feature them on the podcast, we'll do a bonus episode with them, and we'll talk about that thing, get some in front of our audience, that's super helpful to them, it gets more eyes on their kind of marketing around that, that new thing that they're releasing makes us a great partner, right?

Then they like us more. Um, also, as far as authority building goes, the podcast has gotten me to moderate panels. It's gotten me on stage. I was just at ETL last week, moderating a panel about CRO, um, gets me into conferences because, you know, we do have quite a bit of reach at those conferences. I use it to meet people.

So I just, just the same. exact kind of, uh, script I'd call it, right. That I'm [00:13:00] using in cold outreach and in email, but instead I'm like reaching out to people that I know that are going to be at these conferences and like, Hey, do you want to talk about being on the podcast? Uh, and that is kind of like a, a little secret sauce right there.

If. You've got the, you know, you're appealing to their vanity because you want to tell their story. Uh, but then there's the scarcity angle of like, we're only going to be at this place for this finite amount of time. It works really well. Uh, you get an extremely high response rate and you set up a lot of conversations and you meet a lot of cool people.

Um, so that has been events going to events, you know, under the podcast, reaching out to folks that are there, hosting private dinners under the podcast name for these folks. That's been a really. Awesome. Like in, in person strategy with this thing as well.

Sadaf Beynon: That's excellent. Sounds like it's opened a whole lot of doors for you and continues to.

Chase Clymer: Yeah, it's fantastic. Got me on this show.

Sadaf Beynon: Um, Chase, tell me, do you have a favorite, um, story about how a, how one of your [00:14:00] clients came to find you through your podcast?

Chase Clymer: Oh, I wish. I mean, it's just so second nature to me now. We forget to ask sometimes if they, the podcast and stuff, but, uh, we are lucky in that the agency's been around just as long as the podcast.

And we've got amazing partners, like we're Shopify plus partners and things like that. So we are getting, we're not like beholden or reliant to the podcast to carry our business by any means. The podcast does. add more leads to our funnel and for service business. Um, not being tied to referral business as your life source is, uh, definitely a benefit.

Um, cause you can't really control when you're going to get referrals. Um, and it's kind of like, that's just like almost wishful thinking at that point. So we use the podcast strategically to make sure that we are getting [00:15:00] Um, and so that definitely helps us kind of ride out the ebbs and flows of the, the year.

So any commerce, it's like a lot of people reach out at the beginning of the year. And then a lot of people will reach out right for the holidays. And then it's kind of just slow everywhere else. Um, so, But to answer your question, nothing, nothing honestly comes to mind. Maybe I didn't have enough coffee this morning.

Sadaf Beynon: No, that's okay. That's no problem at all. So Chase, it's clear that honest ecommerce plays a huge role in your business growth. It is, it is

Chase Clymer: without a doubt. It is our marketing arm of our agency. And we tell people that we don't lie about it. You know, people ask me when, when I'm interviewing folks, I'm having them on the podcast or in the pre interview call, which there's a something force, a pre interview call, 15 minutes, just get on a phone, [00:16:00] make sure that they can show up when they say they will.

Make sure that your expectation of them as a guest matches what you have in your head. Um, I've had a few people where I didn't want to have them on the podcast afterwards. Right. But, uh, make sure you do that pre interview call. Um, but. Yeah, like on those calls or even after like the recording, they're like, so well, you know, do you make money off the podcast?

I was like, well tangentially. Yeah, I was like we have this agency and this is basically our marketing arm, you know We produce content under it XYZ and I think being Don't try to lie about it If you are gonna use it as like some sort of like network building tool and a sales tool people can definitely smell that bullshit like just be real and Honest about it.

And I mean, I, sometimes I joke about it, but like, yeah, we're going to pitch you something, but it's not going to be a hard and fast sale or anything like that. Like the whole point is to make content. Everything else after that is just awesome.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Um, something you would, you just said about, um, [00:17:00] sometimes you'll get guests on that you don't want to use for your podcast.

Do you carry on recording with them? Like, even though, you know, this is not going to be a good fit or what do you do? Do you,

Chase Clymer: well, that's why I do the pre interview call. If, if I don't like the pre interview call, I just, it's business. It's not personal, honestly. I don't think it's a right fit for XYZ reason.

Often the reason isn't that. I don't like them as a person. It's never that it's never, it's more like their business doesn't match. Like they're not a good fit for my agency. Right. So oftentimes when it's a smaller brand, uh, specifically revenue wise or whatnot, um, you know, I'm like, Hey, you're not there yet.

Focus on these things and reach back out. You know, when you hit these, hit these marks and I'll be more than happy to have you on the show because again, there's only certain amount of weeks in the year. If they can't work with my agency, they're taking a spot away with from someone else that possibly could.

So I have to be very cognizant to, [00:18:00] you know, there's a finite amount of slots per year. And I want to have the best advantage for my business to, you know, meet some awesome clients through this avenue.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's really wise because as you say, you only have so much time and, um, it's, it's so much better spent if, if it's actually going to move the needle for you.

Chase Clymer: So it's usually the reasons that I don't have people on our, our, our business size or they're like. eCommerce needs to be the foundational element of their business or of the like part of the business I'm talking to because I've talked about a bunch of legacy brands on that started retail first and then got into DC like direct to consumer and like that still be a good client, but some people just like it just their business model doesn't jive with what we can do.

And so it's like, doesn't make sense to have like, you know, if it's like a restaurant tour with like a cool merch store, like that's not a good fit for us.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I hear you. Um, yeah, it's, it's great to hear though, that it's your, as you described [00:19:00] it, your marketing arm of the agency, that it's been such a success for you.

But I know podcasting comes with its own set of challenges. So I'd love to know what kind of hurdles you've had to face in launching and growing your podcast. I know you've touched on some of them in the early years, but if so. If there's something else you'd want to highlight.

Chase Clymer: Well, I would just want to say that like, there's definitely like imposter syndrome for the first couple years.

I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Um, and then just, I slowly stopped caring. Uh, it took seven years to get there. Um, but Yeah, so just get started. I think is the biggest hurdle. They're like, Oh, I'm going to suck and be like, here's, yeah, you're going to suck, but just get through it. Delete those first dozen episodes when, whenever you want.

Um, but getting started is the main hurdle after that. Um, it did, it was starting to be a bit of, a time suck for me as a, as a host. And like, so I was coordinating a lot of stuff. Like at a certain point I was doing all the outreach. Yeah. I [00:20:00] was doing all of the interviews, I was doing all the pre interviews, I was writing the emails, you know, I was, I was doing a lot.

So over the years we have built a team that helps me do all of it, and that was a, a massive unlock. It definitely cost us money every month, uh, so obviously depending on people's budgets. Also, we have an insane release schedule compared to some people. Like, we're doing six episodes a month. Compared to some people are doing like one, right?

Yeah. So that's why I need a team to help me. Yeah. Um, but that, that, that really helps. So I've got a team. I've got, uh, a VA helping with outreach. I've got one that helps with copy and email. And I've got one that helps specifically with editing. And so these days, all I'm doing is the pre interviews and then doing the actual interview and everything else happens magically for me.

Uh, but magically for money is the, the key there. It's not free. Um, that was an awesome thing to unlock cause it allowed me to get back, [00:21:00] you know, at the end of the day, my job is business development and basically sales for our agency. And I, the podcast, even though it is technically business development, if we want to call it that it is, I'm meeting new brands, I'm developing new relationships for our business.

Um, It can't be at like the, the detriment of me also fielding inbound leads and running them through our sales cycle. So making sure I have the availability, uh, to speak with those brands that are coming in organically outside of the podcast is, was why I needed to outsource a lot of the stuff.

Sadaf Beynon: So how do you balance that then running the agency and, um, that, that side of the agency side of things and the podcast,

Chase Clymer: I only do, I only have four available slots to record.

It's a podcast a week, and it's only a half hour. The podcast is only like a half hour slot with people. So basically I have two hours set aside a week to record. And then like the pre interviews only take 15 minutes and they're not that bad. So it's, you know, uh, less [00:22:00] than 20 percent of the, if it's like maxed out, which it never is anymore, it's like less than 20 percent of my time a week.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay. Yeah. As you were saying too, you kind of get to this point where you're, the imposter syndrome goes away and. It just becomes second nature. So you do get into this rhythm, don't you?

Chase Clymer: Oh yeah. Like I don't need to spend a lot of time, uh, beforehand doing any prep work. I've got their onboarding form and their pre interview stuff, and I already know.

What we're going to talk about before we get on there, especially with like our most of the time I'm interviewing brand founders and that story arc is in my head. It's burned into my head. I know exactly what the questions are going to be, what the route of the conversation is going to be. Uh, and so.

Those, I can honestly, I could, it's getting to the point where at conferences, I meet new people and be like, do you just want to go over here for 20 minutes and do a podcast real quick? Like, I don't need any prep work.

Sadaf Beynon: That's amazing. [00:23:00] So you have a go bag then?

Chase Clymer: Oh, yeah. So we, we got a new camera. It's over here.

It's just out of frame. So we've, I've got the whole same setup that I have here that now I've got on mobile. So we've got a whole, uh, mobile audio setup and a whole mobile video setup. And I recorded six episodes on location at ETL last week. Um, and that's super fun because it allows me to get a couple of them in the bag so that I can go on vacation and ignore it for a while.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, that's excellent. I love the way you've strategized that. Um, so have you got any, have you, has there been any unexpected lessons from what you've learned from podcasting?

Chase Clymer: I think that the kind of with the cold outreach thing, I was always under the impression that cold outreach did not work. Um, and it comes down to your offer and how you're in, in like how you're positioning things. Our cold outreach works very well now. Um, and I, Just kind of [00:24:00] that was definitely a lesson learned because it had never worked for me before and then once you see it working You're like wow, like we wasted so much time not figuring this out So it allows me to speak with a lot of a lot of awesome brands that I guess I was just not giving giving myself a chance to kind of do that just because I was scared to talk to people.

Heck, I mean, we had a publicly traded company at our dinner last week, just through a cold email. So it definitely works.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow. Fantastic. Well done. Chase. I know that, um, you, when you first started the podcast, it kind of, Just evolved into being, um, I'm interested to know if you've got, um, like as your, as your agency grows and evolves, do you have plans for the podcast to, to evolve alongside what's next for that?

Chase Clymer: Yeah. So, uh, me and my business partner, we're just talking about this recently. Um, cause he's all in on the podcast as like a marketing [00:25:00] tool for the agency at this point. So we are actually, uh, in the process of rebuilding the website, uh, making sure that the content is extremely searchable and browsable through the website.

The ultimate goal is to get the traffic up to a point where we can monetize it as a blog. And actually have it start to make some passive income for the business. Um, which I think is not possible for a startup. But for us with a backlog of 500 episodes with a bunch of backlinks and historical stuff like it is something that we can probably do within the year.

So that's something that we're looking forward to. Uh, and then obviously. Sponsors are still monetizing it. So that's super fun.

Sadaf Beynon: That's cool. So I'm interested to know what you think about the role podcasting will play in ecommerce and digital business strategies.

Chase Clymer: I think that it's the same as blogging it's content.

You have to make content, but I think that you need [00:26:00] a, a unique angle or. people aren't going to find a reason to listen to it. Um, I still think that ours could have a better, more unique angle, but we've done the same thing for so long. I think it's what people expect. So I don't want to throw them for a loop, but if you were, you know, a, a startup ecommerce SaaS company, or if you're an ecommerce brand, if you can find an angle that lends podcasting to your brand, I think that you should go for it Just look at a lot of these direct to consumer brands out there.

You've got hex clad, you've got Casper mattresses, et cetera. They're sponsoring other people's podcasts when you could just build that audience yourself and advertise to them all the time. And the content that you're producing only needs to be tangentially related to your product.

Sadaf Beynon: I think there's so many ecommerce businesses that struggle to differentiate and like listening to you speak and how, um, Honest ecommerce has helped electric eye differentiate and stand out.

It's quite fascinating. And I, I'm just thinking, as you [00:27:00] were talking then that as the podcasting. Industry grows and becomes more saturated. Do you think you would have to, um, change the way you do things, even though that's, that's what your listeners are expecting, you know, that they have a certain thing, um, idea in their head about what.

Honest ecommerce is about and how they do things and what cadence they use for releasing episodes. But do you think that that could change because of what's happening in the podcasting industry? Or do you think that listeners just kind of get used to. The way things are and they're happy with it.

Chase Clymer: I think that it definitely could change and we are not against, you know, pivoting and figuring something else out with it.

Uh, but right now we've got an awesome kind of, uh, process that works for us. Uh, so if it's not broke, don't fix it. It's our motto.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, I like that. [00:28:00] I know I hear what you're saying. I just thought as you were talking, I was just thinking, AI changes a lot of, a lot of industries and I just wondered what that would mean for podcasting.

Chase Clymer: I think that AI people give it way too much credit. Like it's. It's only as smart as the person operating it and it still doesn't have that creative element to it. And so if you're having like a real genuine conversation with somebody, the content that you make there is going to be infinitely better than whatever ChatGPT creates for you.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Chase, I'm conscious of time, but this has been so much fun digging into how you use podcasting as a medium to grow your business.

Chase Clymer: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I recommend everyone starting one.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, absolutely. Um, Chase, before we go, where can people connect with you, learn more about Electric Eye, and of course, tune into Honest eCommerce Podcast.

Chase Clymer: Absolutely. Uh, for social media in the business world, I'm only using LinkedIn. Just search Chase Clymer. You'll find me there. [00:29:00] Um, outside of that, the podcast is at honestecommerce.co and then our agency is electriceye.io. If you're looking to migrate to Shopify, redesign your store, or you want to do some CRO stuff, that's what we're really good at.

Sadaf Beynon: And for those tuning in, you'll find all the links and details in the description. Chase, thanks so much for joining me today and sharing your podcasting journey with us.

Chase Clymer: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Sadaf Beynon: And to everyone listening, if today's conversation has got you thinking about how podcasting could help you grow your business, I would love to talk.

From Chase and from me, thanks for listening and I'll see you next time. [00:30:00]