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The Secret to Organic Podcast Growth | Skip Wilson

Today’s Guest Skip Wilson

Skip Wilson started his advertising journey at 16 as a copywriter and quickly became a digital media pioneer. From shaping CNN's iReport team to leading iHeartMedia's digital growth, Skip's influence is legendary. Now, as the founder of DRAFT Media Partners and host of "The Advertising Podcast," he's all about innovative solutions and practical insights, making marketing magic happen for businesses everywhere.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Podjunction, hosts Matt Edmundson and Sadaf Beynon explore effective strategies for growing a podcast audience. Joined by guest Skip Wilson, they dive into both organic and paid methods to attract and retain listeners.

Three Key Takeaways

  1. Leverage Quality Guests: Featuring guests with significant followings can organically boost your podcast's reach. Guests often promote their appearances, introducing your podcast to their audience, which can lead to increased downloads and followers.
  2. Optimize for Organic Growth: Use SEO strategies to enhance discoverability. This includes keyword-rich titles, detailed show notes, and transcripts. As platforms like Apple start transcribing podcasts, having well-optimised content becomes even more crucial for improving rankings and attracting organic traffic.
  3. Implement Targeted Paid Media:Utilize targeted advertising on platforms like LinkedIn and Spotify to reach specific audiences. Paid media can offer quick returns on investment if campaigns are well-targeted and focused on clear call-to-action objectives, such as inviting guests or attracting new listeners. Combining email outreach with social media retargeting can amplify the effectiveness of these ads.


This episode is packed with actionable advice for podcasters at any stage. Whether you're just starting or looking to refine your growth strategy, the insights shared by Matt, Sadaf, and Skip provide a roadmap to effectively expand your podcast audience.

Don't miss future episodes! Subscribe to Podjunction for more expert advice on leveraging podcasts to grow your business.

Links for Skip

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Related Episodes

Skip Wilson - The Secret to Organic Podcast Growth

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting. Whether you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just simply taking a minute for yourself, our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or a seasoned podcaster, this episode is for you.

Matt Edmundson: Well, good morning. Welcome to Podjunction. My name is Matt Edmundson and beside me is the talented And ever prepared Sadaf Beynon, say Morning . What's right with you?

Sadaf Beynon: Hi everyone. I'm flying by the seat of my pants this morning, .

Matt Edmundson: Literally it's, Hey, why not? So, uh, some, sometimes it's the best way [00:01:00] to do things.

Uh, one might argue, uh, but while a very warm welcome to the show, I hope you are, uh, enjoying it. If you're new to the show, uh, make sure you subscribe 'cause we just talk about how to use podcasts to grab businesses. In a way, hopefully that's a little bit fun and entertaining as well as educational and informative.


Matt Edmundson: Uh, I'm definitely learning lots from doing this show, by the way. Yeah, I am too. Yeah, it's good. I'm enjoying it. Uh, we were saying beforehand, are we doing this show for people outside or is it just to entertain ourselves? Um, cause we laugh a lot doing this show.

Sadaf Beynon: We hope it's both.

Matt Edmundson: Wait, we're just too scared to look at the numbers.

Brilliant. So coming up on today's show is

Sadaf Beynon: Skip Wilson, dun dun dun

Matt Edmundson: dun. See that? That was professional. It was professional until I hit the microphone with my arm. But yeah, so we've got Skip Wilson part two. And today we are talking about

We're going to find out.[00:02:00]

Matt Edmundson: That, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call proper planning and preparation because it prevents poor performance. I can't even say it. What were you trying to say? Proper preparation. No, proper. What is it? Proper planning and preparation prevents poor performance. There is another P in there, which I've taken out because it's a family show.


Matt Edmundson: Um, but yes, uh, as we have attested to and proven that, you know, planning, uh, but yeah, Skip Wilson, we talked, he's, On episode number two now, isn't it? Because last week we started with him and he was talking about why he started the podcast. Um, and so we're carrying on clips from, from,

Sadaf Beynon: from Skip. Um, I can't remember exactly what this one's about, but I can assure you it's going to be good.

So stick around.

Matt Edmundson: Stick around, well, let's get into it. Let's find out if it actually is going to be good. Uh, if it's not good, then obviously, uh, you can reach Sadaf, uh, on social media and all kinds of places and tell her off because [00:03:00] we'll see.

Sadaf Beynon: So going back to your, um, the advertising podcast. Um, your, so correct me if I'm wrong, but your primary audience then for that podcast, um, also intersects with your target market for a draft media.

Is that correct?

Skip Wilson: That's a great question. Cause actually, no, it should. And I mean, or, you know, in theory it should, right. Um, but in, but because of the way we wanted that, we actually structured it to where it has benefit for our guests. Um, because remember, like with that podcast, like our, it's all about whoever our guest is.

And so what we wanted to do was create a podcast that has incredible value to whoever that guest is. And then, because it's the guest that's the value to us,


Skip Wilson: so we actually, the target audience of that podcast [00:04:00] is actually business, you know, small business owners. We don't really work with small business owners directly.

I mean, we have a handful of them, but for the most part, we only work with, you know, You know, internal marketing departments, small to mid sized agencies, and fractional CMOs. So they might listen to it, but a lot of it is like advertising basics and those types of things that they probably would not get a ton out of unless they're new to the advertising world.

Um, but a small business owner would get incredible value. And the small business owner is the target audience for a small to mid sized agency or a small business. Fractional CMO. So we created something that is a benefit to our target audience, which is the guest, not necessarily the target audience of the podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Right. Gotcha. Okay. So, um, what strategies then have been most effective for promoting your podcast and [00:05:00] expanding? I mean, I'm asking expanding listener base because, because there's still an element of that, right?

Skip Wilson: When you have, um, when you have high quality guests on that have a bit of a following themselves, that itself is a sort of marketing strategy because most, you know, most folks who are a part of a podcast instantly want to tell the world, right?

Like you want to say, Hey, listen to this, check this out. They're going to want to promote that themselves. And so what's nice about that is that you don't have to, like, we don't have to do a lot of promotion. To get, you know, several hundred downloads just organically. Right. And then a certain percentage of those folks will, that they're promoting to, will like the podcast and will begin to follow it themselves.

And so it sort of has this sort of slow growth, slow organic growth over time. If I was creating, like, if, for example, the other podcast, um, the, if I was to try to get, um, if, if [00:06:00] that was my goal was to get as many listeners as possible, then one of the first things I would do is think through some sort of, and this might just be because I have a bent towards paid advertising, but I would have sort of a paid advertising strategy in mind.

Um, you know, a few hundred bucks on Spotify or a few hundred bucks on. YouTube would go, can go a long way for a

Sadaf Beynon: podcast. Yeah. That's interesting. Cause you're able to then leverage your expertise, aren't you?

Skip Wilson: Yeah. Right. Exactly. And cause you can target, I mean, even, uh, even the self serve side, I mean, even, you know, anybody listening to this can also just do this, can do this themselves as well.

You don't have to go through someone else, but, um, there's benefit to it. Um, and if you do, you can call us, you know, draftmediapartners. com.


Skip Wilson: shameless plug, but the, um, But if you are trying to set that up, I mean, you can go to Spotify right now and choose podcasts that have similar interests, [00:07:00] you know, or listeners of podcasts that have similar interests to what your topic is.

And, you know, it's not like it takes thousands of dollars to see a return. Obviously, the more you put into it, the more you get out of it, the quicker you get out of it, all of those things. But, um, you know, it can truly work for any budget.

The other thing that we've done to, to help promote that podcast is, um, the apply to be a guest. That's the only ad that we've ever put towards that budget. And it's targeted at specific companies. It's targeted, it's a, you know, usually we'll use something like LinkedIn. Um, as a matter of fact, I think we might've only used LinkedIn, but we could have used LinkedIn and programmatic display and, and a few other tactics.

Targeted at specific companies. Saying apply to be a guest.

Sadaf Beynon: How did you do that? Sorry. Can you like spell that out a bit more? What was the process for that?

Skip Wilson: So like any paid, any paid media strategy should always [00:08:00] begin with, who am I trying to reach? Right? Like, so who, who do I want to get in front of? And you want to be as specific with that as possible.

So, um, if it's business owners, for example. Then, okay, but there's, I don't know of any B2B company that works with all business owners. So small to mid sized, you know, businesses, uh, or, you know, is it company size that's the difference? Is it what industry they're in? That's the difference. And you want to try to whittle it down to like, for us, it was a very specific niche.

So we actually did job title targeting, um, on LinkedIn, um, because we're looking for people with specific job titles. But, um, depending on, you know, so you want to get as specific on who you're trying to reach as possible, then you figure out where are those folks, which for us is LinkedIn. Um, for, you know, for, you know, someone listening, your folks may not be on LinkedIn at all, but, you know, if you were trying to reach, if we were trying to reach business [00:09:00] owners.

I think LinkedIn is actually a terrible platform for that, um, because business owners for the most part, they all have LinkedIn, but they're, I mean, nobody's just on LinkedIn for fun unless you're a mid tier VP director or lower, because the only real reason to be on LinkedIn is if you're trying to get a promotion and business owners aren't trying to get a promotion.

So, um, the, so that's not the platform I would choose. And so, um, where, who's your audience? You figure out where are they and then you figure out, okay, what am I, what's the one thing I'm trying to get them to do? You can't, in other words, you can't run an ad saying, listen to my podcast and apply to be a guest or, or apply to be a guest because that's, should be two different groups, two different ads, two different call to actions.

Um, you know, an ad can only do one thing. And so you try to figure out what that one thing is. I want them to, you know, [00:10:00] apply to be a guest, or I want them to listen those things. And then it, then you wanna think about the environment of where they are when they're trying to do the thing. So that's why I mentioned if you're trying to get listeners, YouTube is great.

Spotify is great, because if I'm listening to podcasts on Spotify, I'm a podcast listener already. So for me to switch from one path of the cast to another,

mm-hmm ,

Skip Wilson: incredibly easy. Um, YouTube, um, is I think already the second largest podcast network or podcast platform, and it's going to continue to grow.

Um, and so if I'm on YouTube, it's very simple for me to, instead of whatever I would, instead of watching a cat play piano, I can switch over and watch, you know, and listen to this podcast about this topic that I'm in.

Sadaf Beynon: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.[00:11:00]

Matt Edmundson: So welcome back. Another cracking insight or series of insights there from Skip. We should just get Skip on the show. Probably he should replace me. I think he, this show might be out.

Sadaf Beynon: You're irreplaceable, Matt.

Matt Edmundson: Feed Matt's ego. It's not true, but let's assume it is for a little while. Skip, what a legend there, talking about, um, so that's actually what you talked about.

You know, you didn't know beforehand, but you did say it was going to be good. It was good, right? Yeah, it was good. Um, but yeah, talking about, you know, growing, growing the strategy or growing the podcast audience. Um, so he broke it down. He had a organic strategy and he had a paid strategy, right? Um, and this is true in, I mean, you know, we talk a lot about eCommerce on the show because that's one of the fields that we're in.

We have the eCommerce podcast as one of our biggest shows and in eCommerce, we're always talking about organic traffic and. It's paid, right? It's one or the other. [00:12:00] Do we do SEO? Do we do paid media? Do we do both? How do we get more people organically to a site? How do we get more people through paid media to a site that convert?

And actually all he's done is applied that same methodology to, to his podcast. It's like your podcast will grow because of organic growth and it will grow through paid media. Now I'm going to venture to say that most podcasts don't do any form of paid media. Media. And I'm going to venture to say that actually those that have have probably just run Facebook ads or Meta, should I say now we've just run Meta ads.

Um, so let's deal with paid media first, because I, this is, um, perhaps one of the most intriguing things, like how can I use paid media to grow my podcast? Could pay, if you get paid media, right, it is so quick and the return on investment is really strong, but you've got to get it right. This is my experience with eCommerce.

You've got to understand things. Uh, there's, there's words which digital marketeers [00:13:00] throw around a lot. One of which is ROAS, return on ad spend. In other words, if I spend a dollar on advertising, how much money do I get back as a result of spending that dollar? Um, and so in eCommerce, we're always looking for the biggest ROAS possible.

So, um, in most businesses now, it used to be, you could get a ROAS of 14 or 15, certainly with Meta, actually now it's more like two. If you get a ROAS of two, possibly three. You're doing okay. Um, and so understanding, I suppose, with paid media, if you're going to use paid media, so paying for, I liked his, um, I really liked his idea on LinkedIn, the running ads to

Sadaf Beynon: be a guest,

Matt Edmundson: I'd never thought of that.

Um, I'd, I'd quite happily run ads all day long saying, listen to our podcast because it's awesome. Um, not the exact wording I would choose, obviously. Um, but I, I'd never thought about running ads to ideal guests to come on and apply as a guest. Yeah. And I think that's quite clever. [00:14:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Um, we should definitely try that.


Sadaf Beynon: should do that.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and, uh, that was my takeaway from today, uh, was to, to We're gonna try that, see how he goes. Although Skip, I think he was, he, he was quite right actually in what he said is if you, if your ideal client are business leaders Yeah. Running ads on LinkedIn might not be the best platform for that.

Um, we do cold outreach to business leaders, so we'll message them through LinkedIn. Um, or, you know, through email, um, and we've, we've had a pretty good success rate doing that, right. Um, in terms of reaching out to people, we, we get a good open rate, like high eighties, low nineties open rate, which is, I mean, if I got that in eCommerce, I'd be loving life, let me tell you.

Um, but, uh, you know, asking someone to come and be a guest on your show gets a high open rate on cold outreach. I'm curious to try be. Um, that ad to see whether actually what Skip [00:15:00] said is true for our demographic, you know, the people that we're trying to reach on, uh, to be guests, cause they would be more leaders and business owners.

Um, but I, I, I'm, I'm intrigued by the fact that he's obviously figured that out. There's a, that is itself is super valuable, super, super valuable. Um, But yeah, I think we should definitely try it.


Matt Edmundson: I think we should definitely try that.

I've written it down.

Matt Edmundson: You've written it down.

It's going to happen.

Matt Edmundson: It's going to happen. I just wrote Craig and so called Craig. Craig manages our paid media, um, and so, uh, well, he's one of the people that manages our paid media. So we, I'm going to talk to him about it a little bit, uh, and I'm going to talk to Ross as well. I'm going to put Ross here because Ross is a LinkedIn genius.

So yeah, we'll have a little more feedback, uh, over the next few months, how that's gone. You may see our ads appearing on LinkedIn, um, so in which

Sadaf Beynon: case click on them

Matt Edmundson: and apply to be a guest. Uh, in fact, don't click on them cause it will [00:16:00] cost us money. Just go to the website,

Sadaf Beynon: just reach out.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, but I thought that was really clever. And so just again, just to reiterate what Skip said, you have to be really clear in digital marketing. Who are you trying to reach? Who are you trying to target? Be as specific as possible. Where do they hang out? Is it LinkedIn? Is it Meta? Is it wherever it is?

Target the ads there and then be really, really clear on the call to action. The one thing you want them to do as a result of seeing that ad, not two things, not three things, but what's the one thing and then just trying those ads and just trying different copy, trying different headlines and seeing which pulls the most for you guys.

And share your findings with us because genuinely I'm intrigued, I'm intrigued by podcast promotion through paid media because I think historically. It's not worked that well and podcasters have stayed clear of it, stayed clear of it. Is that, does that English translate? I don't know if I've said that right.

Um, but we've, we traditionally have avoided. In other words, [00:17:00] in other words, we have avoided. Uh, and so whenever you talk to people about promoting podcasts through paid media, there's some, always some interesting kind of caveats going on all over the place. Now, either they've discovered a secret source they don't want anybody to know, or I think more likely their fingers have been burnt through it.

And so, and I would suggest that actually, the default path that people have gone down is just doing meta ads. So ads on Facebook, ads on Instagram, possibly even now with WhatsApp, and tried running those ads that used to work quite well, maybe five, six years ago, aren't doing that well now and are a lot more expensive.

And I think that's why people have gone, we've tried it, but it doesn't work.

Sadaf Beynon: I, I remember it was about a year ago that we were gonna do an ad on Facebook Mm. For our, one of our podcast courses. But I really like actually his, his one call to action. Yeah. To apply to be a guest, I think.


Sadaf Beynon: I think that would, um, that would be [00:18:00] far more effective.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It would. And I think actually if we wanted to supercharge this. And again, I, I, you know, if you don't know what I'm talking about, that's fine. But one of the ways we could supercharge this is to say, right, let's go and find say 500 people or 1000 people we're going to target on LinkedIn. Let's try and get their email addresses.

Um, you know, some people have their email addresses on LinkedIn. So we're going to pull down those email addresses. So I'm going to target them with ads on LinkedIn, I'm going to do cold outreach through email, and I'm going to maybe message them on LinkedIn. Plus, I'm going to take their email addresses.

Create a custom audience, upload them to Meta. So if they're on Facebook or Instagram, we will retarget ads there and only retarget, we're not going to do cold outreach, but do retargeting ads on Meta. And that way we are, we are getting in front of people like six or seven times. Um, for very [00:19:00] little money, I would have thought, I mean, I, you know, we've got to figure out the cost of LinkedIn advertising, but you don't need big budgets to try and make that work is what I'm saying.

Yeah, you probably do need a couple of thousand people for it to make sense to try and create custom audience on Facebook. Um, but yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: I think the only thing there is you have to be really clear on who it is you're trying to target because some we've done it in the past, haven't we? We've got people that we probably, they probably probably weren't the right prospects.

But, um, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And I think that's something you learn, isn't it? As you go through, uh, like with push, I think we've learned who makes better Yeah. Guests and who the people are that we think would be an ideal guest, both for our company and to work with. And the podcast. And the podcast in terms of delivering value.

Yeah. And so as we get clearer on that, our targeting becomes much better. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And so we're constantly gonna be refining targeting. Um, but yeah, I thought that was top tip, top tip. And I loved, uh, the other thing that we've not tried actually, and I've circled it again is [00:20:00] Spotify ads, which duh, uh, I just didn't even think that Spotify to think about the Spotify ad platform.

Cause again, I'm so engrossed in eCom, everything is meta or Google. They're the two ones. Yeah. Now Pinterest as well, now TikTok shop. Um, you know, they're, they're sort of on the radar, but, um, Spotify ads, I think. Genius. We're definitely going to try those. Yeah. Um, it used to be with YouTube ads and I, uh, I want to check this out actually.

And maybe I'll, I'll skip this on the eCommerce podcast when it comes to YouTube ads. Um, I remember talking to Brett Curry about YouTube ads and he said to me at the time, you needed at least 5, 000 to make it, make it work. Now this was going back 18 months ago. So I'm imagining, obviously it's changed a lot since then.

And so it sounds like the budgets required are a lot lower, which is cool. Um, so yeah, all things that you can try. So go try YouTube, go try Spotify. Um, try the LinkedIn strategy, if guest outreach is, makes sense, if they're on there, [00:21:00] do let us know, seriously, we want to understand what works with the paid media, because I think for so long, it's been a bit of a, a dark thing where podcasting is concerned and we just, I think if we can start to bring some light on it and shed some stories, I think that would just really help everybody in the podcast industry, which is what we're trying to do.

So. Let us know your stories. Let us know how you get on. I would genuinely be curious. And of course, as Rick said, um, Skip, why did I say Rick?

Um, I don't know.

Matt Edmundson: I have no idea either. Sorry, Skip. I don't know why I said Rick. And I knew it was wrong as soon as it came out of my mouth. But, if you want some help with it, go contact Skip, uh, and see if that company can help you.

If you're unsure on where to start, um, You never know, you never know, go give them a check out. So that's Pat, anything else on paid? Sure. Yep. What were your takeaways?

Sadaf Beynon: Um, well, he was talking about the, the promoting of the podcast. It was the three things, wasn't it? The influential guests. So having them then talk about it on [00:22:00] their social media to their, to their, um, circle.

And then you've got the, the organic way, which is through SEO. And then paid as we've talked about, so we could talk about SEO.

Matt Edmundson: We can talk about SEO. Um, this is one of the most intriguing things. Um, so you've got, you know, how people find you organically and how people find you through paid media. SEO is a big deal in the web and actually it's becoming a bigger and bigger deal now with podcasting.

One of the things that we've noticed more and more, you, you have things like. Um, Apple have just announced recently that they are going to transcribe every podcast.


Matt Edmundson: So they're going to do that. So irrespective of whether you upload a transcript, they are now transcribing the content. So they're going to know much more about the content.


Sadaf Beynon: That's interesting.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And I think it's, it's, it's good. I'm curious to see what that impact of that is on people's podcast rankings. Um, because

Sadaf Beynon: we've been doing transcripts

Matt Edmundson: for a long time,

Sadaf Beynon: for a long time. Yeah. [00:23:00]

Matt Edmundson: I'm a big fan of putting transcripts up, obviously from accessibility point of view, but also because you let's the podcast, you know, let's Apple and Spotify and everybody know what your podcast is about.

If they, Search the transcripts again, not all of them do, but I think it's becoming more and more of a thing now. Um, so SEO, it used to be all about the title and the show notes. Um, and the name of the podcast in some respects, uh, we found that when we changed the name of the eCommerce podcast from, what was it called?

Curiosity. Yeah. The Curiosity Podcast. When we changed it from Curiosity, but the reason we call it that because we got a company called Curious. Um, so we changed it from the Curiosity Podcast to the eCommerce Podcast because the title of the show, from an SEO point of view, if you Google an SEO.

eCommerce Podcast. We wanted it to go, Oh, that's interesting. Cause it's called the eCommerce Podcast. And so SEO actually is really important. What you name your show is important. The, the title of the show is important and the show notes [00:24:00] are important. And so we try now when we do show notes to make them keyword rich relating to the topic that we talked about, uh, which isn't, you know, and that, those show notes will go on to the podcast.

So the podcast players like Apple will read those, but they'll also go on to our website. So Google will read them, that'll also go into the YouTube description, so, you know, YouTube, the biggest, second biggest search engine in the world. Um, so they know what it's all about and I think they're really, really important.

The only thing that I would say about titles is when it comes to SEO on content, it's different to SEO, I think, on a product based site, like an eCommerce site, right? Um, but I think titles of your podcast.

We have to balance so many different things like SEO versus the hookability of that title, right? Because, uh, I've mentioned this before, I have a, I'm subscribed to a whole bunch of podcasts. I don't listen to every episode from every podcast I'm subscribed to. [00:25:00] I instantly make a decision based on the title of that show, right?

Whether or not I'm going to listen to it. Um, And the ones that are SEO optimized might not always be the best titles for that show. And this is something I think we have to play around with quite a bit is like, how do we get the best title for the show, which hooks a reader in, uh, reader, listener into the show?

If you look at YouTube, for example, and what works on YouTube and what makes people listen and what draws people in, YouTube has both the thumbnail and the title. So you have a combination of both things. Um, more and more, you have that now, uh, thinking it through, you have that with podcasts because. And a lot of podcasts now you can actually have a unique thumbnail image for that podcast.

And so, you know, your thumbnail text and your headline text have got to work together to draw people in. Um, so it's a really interesting balance that you have to make. And I don't know if I have the right [00:26:00] answers. Um, but I do know that the more people listen to your show, irrespective of what the title says, the more it gets promoted, the more Apple goes, Oh, this is an interesting show and it becomes a snowball effect as your audience grows, they promote it to more people, right?

Um, and so getting people hooked into the show to listen to it and to have interesting content where they stay listening to it is still the most important thing from an organic SEO point of view, I would say.


Matt Edmundson: You got anything to add to that? I mean, you create the titles for the show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, um, I mean, full disclosure, I think there's lots, um, for me that I think I've, I've learned a lot through over the few years that we've been doing this, that how much the titles actually make a difference.

And I think even more so now, because as you were pointing out, you listen to so many podcasts, you've got so many titles that you're sifting through. And, and I think like podcasting is a growing industry and you're getting more and more [00:27:00] people listening all the time. So you're going to be fighting for

Matt Edmundson: people's attention.

Yeah. And

Sadaf Beynon: so having that right makes such a big difference.

Matt Edmundson: It does. You, you, you are, years ago when you were the only podcast doing it, it was fine. But now yeah. There's a hundred podcasts all trying to get that listener's attention at that point in time. Mm-Hmm. . And so you have to, I think we can't be lazy about the titles of the podcast.

Yeah. And I think one of the things that we've done in the past is we've just outsourced it to ai. Um, the titles of the show, and I think

Sadaf Beynon: you've taken it a bit back now, aren't we?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think AI is not, this is probably one of my observations. AI is not great at writing titles. And in fact, if you see any title of any podcast, uh, podcast or video with two words, with a , with a colon, you know, AI has written that.

Yeah. Um, and I think that's. Interesting to me. So, um, trying to understand what works and plays with each other is, is fascinating. And I think there's an art and a science to it. Um, [00:28:00] but the ability to communicate information in a way that draws people in as a hook, I think is super, super powerful. So on this title, for example, if we're going to title this show, um, I would probably, just because I think it's such a unique topic, you might, we might do something like, Using paid media to grow your podcast, does it work, question mark, right?

So I'm asking a question, maybe actually podcast titles, which are questions, which are people are asking are super important. So we could actually go to something like answerthepublic. com type in the, you know, that kind of thing and see, see what questions people are asking. We could maybe go to Google.

What's the most searched term? How do people phrase it? And then. Maybe that then becomes a title of the show. So it becomes, you know, indexable. It's a question. It hooks people in. They tend to make really good titles. They're intriguing, you know, what is going to cover. [00:29:00] So in that title, you know, we're going to talk about paid media or paid advertising.

Um, maybe paid advertising will be the better way. Um, and run that as a, as the title for the show. Um, and we could, if we were really anal about it, I suppose we could split test it. Like does that title pull in more than that title? Cause you can always go back and change the titles of your podcasts, um, change them on YouTube, see what pulls people in more and so on and so forth.

And I think once you've said it, you don't have to forget about it. You can. Which we tend to do to be fair, I'm just thinking we've got a back catalog of about 600 episodes, which, uh, would be interesting to go back and retitle some of them and rename some of them, knowing what we now know. Um, but yeah, so organic that just to touch on one of the things really quick, he did talk about getting guests that have social following.

And I think, um, that's a great way to grow organically because we, we give [00:30:00] our guests, um, the assets to share on social media. Yeah, that's part of our strategy, isn't it? So we will create the quotes, the reels, you know, the clips, those kinds of things. And we give those to the client, uh, to the guests, uh, we give those to the guests, um, and they then share them out on social media.

If we share something on social media, we will tag them in the post as well. Um, and obviously quite a lot of guests will also ask us for the full video. So then they can create their own social assets out of it as well. They are brilliant guests those, cause they know exactly what they're doing. Um, and so, but making it easy for them to share the content by tagging them in the posts and giving them access to the assets if they want them is super, super important.

So, uh, they, they will share it out. They will talk about it, uh, which I think is a beautiful thing. Um, and yeah. Uh, I can't recommend it enough, uh, as a way to organically grow your podcast. It will be slower, um, but [00:31:00] giving your guests stuff to share out because they're proud of the episode, man. Yeah. You know, it's good for them.

They were pleased with that content. They want to share it out. Everybody wants content to share with their audience now. So just give them that and they'll do it, you know, uh, which is a beautiful thing. So anything you want to add to that?

Sadaf Beynon: No. Are

Matt Edmundson: you sure?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I'm conscious of time. Yeah, but I think what what I've got in mind that I want to share will leave for another episode.

No doubt it'll come up.

Matt Edmundson: No doubt. Okay, awesome. Well, I enjoyed that one. Skip your legends. We're going to go to play around with some paid media now. Uh, but, um, let us, like I say, let us know how you get on. Genuinely really interested in, in what you guys play around with on this. Uh, we'd really love to know, but yeah, uh, that's it from me.

That's it from Sadaf. Make sure you like and subscribe to the show and all that usual good stuff. And of course, share it out on social media. Help us grow organically. Why would you not, uh, just repost us on your reels and on your stories and on


Matt Edmundson: feeds and there's all kinds of posh [00:32:00] names now, isn't it?

Just share it out. Be really, really stoked, man. If you did put us on LinkedIn, tag us. We would love to see it all. But we'll put our social media links in the show notes so you know how to tag us. I'm saying that I'm

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, we do. We do.

Matt Edmundson: That's awesome. Okay. And on that bombshell, ladies and gentlemen, have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time,

Sadaf Beynon: and that brings us to the end of today's episode at Pod Junction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit pod junction.com where you'll find more information about how you can join Pod Junction cohort.

Whether you listen to while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next [00:33:00] time, happy podcasting.