Start a Podcast to Grow your Network and Establish your Credibility | Rob Brown

Rob Brown [0:00 - 0:00]: Foreign.

Sadaf Beynon [0:05 - 0:59]: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast. I'm your host, Sadaf Beynon. And this is the show where we Explore how entrepreneurs, CEOs and business leaders are using their podcast to grow their businesses. On the Podjunction Podcast, I get to talk to inspiring podcasters who share their strategies, challenges and visions for the future. So whether you're just starting out or looking to take your podcast to the next level, you're in the right place. So today our special guest is Rob Brown. Rob is a dynamic event host, keynote speaker and podcast pro with an impressive background as a math teacher, accountant, and even a Kickboxing Bell. A TEDx speaker with over 400,000 views and the best selling author of Build Your Reputation. Rob helps professional firms. Sorry. Shine through storytelling, leadership and growth strategies. Rob, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

Rob Brown [0:59 - 1:05]: What a blessing we are here and we're rocking the free world. Sadaf, great to join you.

Sadaf Beynon [1:05 - 1:22]: Thank you. Well, today we're digging into how your podcast grows, helps grow your business, what you've learned along the way, and where you're headed next. So without further ado, let's get to it. First question, Rob, how did your podcast journey begin and what was your goal for it at the start?

Rob Brown [1:23 - 3:09]: My podcast kinda began with a life tragedy. I had a stroke, a brain haemorrhage in 2016. I was around 50 years old and it was very unexpected. And up to that point I'd been working with bankers, accounts, lawyers, technically super smart people, teaching them how to win business, how to stand out, how to build their reputation. And after that stroke, I lost some vision. I couldn't drive anymore, I had to say no to a lot of things. And I made the decision to niche into accountants because I had a good accounting client at the time that was very decent to me during my rehabilitation. And so I said no to a lot of things. And it meant that I had to establish myself a lot more in a sector, in a niche where I was just known a little bit. And I made the decision that I would start a podcast with the simple objective to be known by more people and find a reason to reach out to very influential people that otherwise wouldn't talk to me to invite them on the show. So I started a podcast. Back then I wanted to know how people were networking and growing and doing what they were doing. And I was doing it on Skype. Some of your older listeners, viewers might recognise Skype, but it was just audio and it was very crude, but it allowed me to reach out to people that otherwise wouldn't give me the time of day. And it established me as an influencer of influences, if you'd like, as somebody that brought people together and gave them a platform to talk about what they were doing. So there was a very selfish motivation to establish myself very quickly by getting around people that were way down the road from me in terms of their personal brand and their reputation.

Sadaf Beynon [3:09 - 3:17]: Wow, thank you. So you started it to network, establish yourself as an influencer, thought leader. How did that go?

Rob Brown [3:17 - 5:01]: Very successfully. People are vain. If they're not super world famous, then they have egos. And they're all looking for an opportunity to tell their story, to tell the world how great they are, to sell their products and services, to shine a light, to stay relevant. And podcasts were fairly new back then when I started, and so people were curious too. What's a podcast? There weren't many podcast apps. YouTube wasn't particularly well established and podcasts were not on there. So it was very much try it. What have we got to lose? So I reached out to people and carefully crafted my messages. I've started a new podcast. It's called this. Would you like to be a guest on the show and share your stories? And that's a vanity plea, isn't it? It appeals to people's vanity and it's really hard to say no to. Another phrase I used a lot was, would you be open to being a guest on our show? And I positioned it that way that not quite that we needed them, but that it would be a benefit to them and it was an honour for them to be invited. Would you like to be a guest and share your story? Would you like us to give you a platform to talk more about what you do so that it wasn't so desperate? And I made a point when I was having guests on to ask them off recording at the end. Who else do you know that might be a good guest? Yeah, and you get a domino effect too. I'm sure you've seen this, where if you can land one big guest, you can land other big guests by mentioning that name. We've already had this person on our show. Oh, really? Okay, well, I'll be on your show too.

Sadaf Beynon [5:01 - 5:02]: Yes.

Rob Brown [5:02 - 5:14]: So it did work. Yes, it definitely did work. It achieved its objective of building my reputation within this game, which gave me much more credibility to continue to do the things I wanted to do and at a much higher level.

Sadaf Beynon [5:14 - 5:23]: Yeah, yeah. I think there's really something to be said about the vanity plea, as you called it, and also the power of name dropping. It really does go a long way. Doesn't.

Rob Brown [5:25 - 5:32]: Certainly does. You've got to, you've got to get out there as much as you can. It's no use being a well kept secret. Yeah, you probably know that a lot.

Sadaf Beynon [5:32 - 5:36]: In what ways then did your podcast help grow your business?

Rob Brown [5:36 - 9:17]: The podcast channel can be used in a number of ways. And when you say grow your business, for me it was grow your personal brand. There's a few ways to make money from podcasts and you'll explore them a lot on your show. And your, your viewers, listeners will be looking at this and saying, which way do I go and what am I doing this for? So some people make money from podcasts with sponsorship, so they develop such a big audience that people will pay to be in front of that audience. Some people run their podcast for personal brand and awareness and exposure to let the world know what they're doing so that they build a community, they build a following. Some people run a podcast commercially to sell their products and services off the back of it, and so they effectively use it as an advertisement platform for their own products and services. And these are all really legitimate reasons. Some people actually have a burden. I want to get this off my chest. I want to talk about true crime, I want to talk about this, I want to talk about dogs, I want to talk about accountants. And so they do it for their own mental health and state of mind and they have a crusade and they just want to talk about things even if they're just broadcasting to nobody. They. That's their objective release. Yes, it's a release, it's a burden, it's a cause, it's a crusade. So when you say, how does it help your business? There are lots of different ways it helps your business. And I wrote a book a few years ago called Build Your Reputation. It's on Amazon. And a mentor once said to me, when you write a book, unless you're J.K. rowling writing Harry Potter books, and you can make a million billions from your book, it's not what the book makes for you, it's what it makes of you. So let me explain that with the podcast. It's not what a podcast makes for you generally in terms of money, revenue, business opportunities, it's what it makes of you in terms of the influencer and the expert and the interviewer and the thought leader that you become. It's what it makes of you in other people's eyes. It puts you on a pedestal, it puts you in the centre of the storm. It positions you very well in your market as the expert in a particular field. So you might not make money from your podcast and most don't. They're a vanity project that the podcast host funds from their other things. But in terms of what it makes of you in other people's eyes, that becomes valuable because you can't really put a price on influence and reputation and personal brand. You might down the line if you're using it to leverage products and services and courses and webinars and books and everything else that you're doing. That's definitely a route that many podcasters go down. But ultimately it's what it makes of you. And you become the collector of stories, the interviewer of interesting people. And your personal brand melds into your business brand and it works well in the fight for attention. We're all in the fight for attention. Yeah, we have small attention spans these days and there's so many marketing messages and so much noise out there. We are fighting for those eyeballs and those ears and that screen. Time for a little bit of somebody's brain and somebody's attention. And a podcast is such a great vehicle for that. In terms of what you can do with it, you have every chance. It's no good being great at what you do, but a well kept secret, because being anonymous doesn't serve anybody's purpose. Your message stays a secret, your products and services stay a secret, and your bank account stays small. Yeah, we can't afford to not shout about what we do. And podcasts are great for that.

Sadaf Beynon [9:17 - 9:28]: Yeah, for sure. I really liked what you said about it's not what a podcast makes for you, but what it makes of you. That's really quite insightful. How did you land on that?

Rob Brown [9:29 - 10:44]: Well, my mentor was telling me when I wrote my book, he said, don't expect this book to make you millions. Don't expect this book to make you thousands. Don't expect this book to sell thousands. It might do, and that's great. But in terms of your audience, the book will be a business card to get you the speaking engagements and the training contracts and the bookings and the course uptakes and selling your other products and services. That's what your book will do for you. It will open doors for you. You won't make much money from your book. In the same way people won't make much money from a podcast. It probably costs them to run a podcast. You know, what goes on behind the scenes of putting on a successful podcast, which is why people need you and what you're doing at Podjunction to do all of that for them, because anyone can start. But keeping it going and keeping it high quality, that's where people like you come in to help people like me. So podcasts cost money, Quality podcasts do, and so you need to fund that. But your podcast in and of itself won't make money. But the things that come on the back of a podcast will generally make you money if you do it right. At least to wash its face and be cost neutral.

Sadaf Beynon [10:45 - 10:53]: Yeah, no, that's. That's great. Thank you for sharing that. So you said your podcast was a huge success and continues to be a success.

Rob Brown [10:53 - 11:17]: Let's define success for a moment, because when you say huge success, you're giving me an enormous amount of credit that might not be deserved. What is success for a podcast? We've heard of the term pod fade. I'm sure you've talked about it a lot on your show. Most podcasts don't get past 10 or 12 episodes. So success for some people might be keeping a podcast going for a year or two or running a whole season. That might be success.

Sadaf Beynon [11:17 - 11:17]: Do.

Rob Brown [11:17 - 11:47]: Just doing one episode might be a success for somebody. Making it cost neutral might be a success for somebody. Selling something off the back of it or landing a marquee high profile guest might be a success. Doing your own episodes and learning the skills to be on camera or be on a microphone might be a success. So there are so many different ways to define success. Some podcasters have millions of followers, but that's not enough for them. Some podcasts have a hundred followers and that's all they need. So it's very subjective, isn't it?

Sadaf Beynon [11:47 - 11:48]: Successful.

Rob Brown [11:48 - 13:08]: And for one person, success wouldn't even touch the sides. We all set different goals. So when I say mine was a success, it was a success in terms of getting me the leverage and the reputation in the industry that I needed that would make other things happen for me. I started to get speaking engagements, I started to get training contracts. I started to build out a formidable high level network. I started to get higher quality guests on the back of the guests I'd already landed on the show. So good names lead to more good names. It's that FOMO guests don't want to turn down a spot on your show if somebody else they know has already said yes, because they don't want to miss out on whatever it is you offered. And you get a reputation too for being a great host if you've got an interview based show, and not all shows are interview based. I've actually started doing more shows that are just solo ones with Rob Brown, so that I am the expert and not me just interviewing the expert, but success yet ultimately is defined in so many ways. So yes, it was a success for me that it helped me break into a niche much more deeply, with much more credibility and authority that allowed me to do different things for other people. It might be different.

Sadaf Beynon [13:09 - 13:24]: Yeah, no, that's fair. And thank you for defining that actually and just clarifying those things. And I guess it's something that would keep changing and moving with you. Right. So as soon as you accomplish one thing, you're aiming for the next. For the next goal.

Rob Brown [13:25 - 14:06]: Yeah, we set milestones, don't we? All the business people listening, watching you right now, they'll have their own goals and some of them will be in multimillion pound businesses and someone will be. And we'll be in smaller businesses than that. So the goals are all different and all subjective and it's important they don't make my goal their goal. Yes, because what you're striving for is different to what I'm striving for. But the question they should be asking themselves is if I start a podcast or keep this podcast going or I move my podcast up a level by bringing Podjunction in, for example, that's a commercial decision. How does that raise my game? How does that take us to the next level?

Sadaf Beynon [14:06 - 14:06]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [14:06 - 14:12]: And what new goals can we define on the back of that that would constitute success for us?

Sadaf Beynon [14:12 - 14:19]: Rob, what would you say have been some of the toughest challenges then with your podcast and. And using it as a growth tool?

Rob Brown [14:19 - 16:14]: Certainly one of the trends that I've seen happening over the last few years. Our podcast exploded during COVID but then most people's did because people are isolated and they're out walking dogs on their own and no commutes and things like that. However, we've seen the explosion of video with TikTok and Instagram and platforms like this. And podcasting, we found, has been less of an audio medium and more of a video medium. More podcasts are found and consumed on YouTube now than any other platform. More than Apple, more than Spotify, more than all of the apps, more than websites. So that's a trend that we have to play into. That's been challenging in that for many years. I just did it on audio. I didn't have a video project, I didn't have a video product, a video channel. So we've had to morph that and we've had to upskill. I've I recorded for two years on Zoom. There's nothing wrong with recording on Zoom, but you'll know it's a meeting platform and not a video recording platform. We're on Riverside right now. Other platforms are available, but it creates a high quality recording because you know that this doesn't just go out as an audio, it goes out as a video. And you create video snippets and shorts and everything else from that. So we need constantly to be adapting to the technology. The new microphones, the new lightings, the new backdrops. They don't need to be Hollywood production set up, but they need to be higher quality and moving with the time. So that's been challenging how we morphed into more of a video product that repurposed as an audio. So we still put it out on the audio podcast and people still listen to it, but our audience is growing more on YouTube than it is on the audio channels. So that's been a challenge, if I may mention another one.

Sadaf Beynon [16:14 - 16:15]: Yeah, of course.

Rob Brown [16:15 - 18:21]: Endurance. We put out a weekly show at one period. I was putting out a show every day for different podcasts. And it's a huge amount of work behind the scenes. The spreadsheets, we were running the schedules, we were running the guests, we were curating all of the things behind the scenes, liaising with guests, setting questions, scoping out shows, finding things to talk about, promoting the shows. There's such a lot that you guys at Podjunction will do really well for your clients, that people watching this would do well to outsource to you. Because the more you get into podcasting, like anything, the more there is to know and the more there is to do. So you've got to be careful about not just being a podcaster, but building a podcast team. Yeah, that's been challenging as well. And getting good people around you that understand you, that get your brand, that are going the way you want to go, that appreciate how you want to put yourself out there, and they're a representation of your brand. They're an ambassador of your brand. You do this really well for your clients in that you take what they create and make it consumable, you make it found. You put it out there in a consumable format that gets engagement and that gets attention and that grows. So getting a podcast team around you is another phase of the process beyond you just doing it in a back bedroom with a microphone or at your kitchen table. So getting on top of the technology, getting on top of the new platforms and channels and Outlets for your show, building up a podcast team, honing the processes and procedures that make your show happen. And another challenge, I might add is becoming the subject of the show myself rather than just being the interviewer. It's very safe to start off being an interviewer because it's not about you. All you can do is ask the questions and somebody else has all the answers.

Sadaf Beynon [18:21 - 18:22]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [18:24 - 18:58]: So to become that person doing your own show, I found that quite difficult, even though I was comfortable at presenting and I knew what I was talking about. It's finding your own cadence, your own style and your own self worth to say, can I do a show for 10, 15 minutes where it's just me talking? Will people watch that? Will they listen to that? Is that a value? How do I put that show together? It's much easier bringing on a guest. Hi, I'm Rob Brown, host of the show today. Our guest is. And we're going to talk about. That's easy because the spotlight is not on you and it's up to the guest to provide value.

Sadaf Beynon [18:58 - 18:59]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [18:59 - 19:15]: So that's been. Another challenge is in. We move from one show from all shows being interviewed to maybe four out of five shows were interview, then three out of five, two out of five, and then maybe one show a month is an interview based. And the other is Rob Brown.

Sadaf Beynon [19:15 - 19:16]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [19:18 - 19:27]: And weekly shows, monthly shows, finding the cadence, doing seasons, being more strategic with the show rather than Right. What should we talk about next week?

Sadaf Beynon [19:28 - 19:28]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [19:29 - 19:52]: And building in a lead time where our shows are recorded now a couple of months in advance. And here's another point to mention. Podcasts are evergreen, so you'll appreciate, Saraf, that people will listen to podcasts of you and your clients from months ago, from years ago. They'll pick up the show and they'll scroll back through previous episodes and say, oh, I like that.

Sadaf Beynon [19:52 - 19:53]: Mm.

Rob Brown [19:53 - 20:56]: And they'll listen to old episodes. So doing the newsy type stuff, this is what's happening today that's not relevant next week, next month, next year. So we try and put stuff out there that's evergreen that will resonate to people that listen in a year from now. Now, some things you have to be topical on and talk about the now, but wherever possible. We found the secret sauce for our show is to be putting out content that will be relevant in months and even a year or two from now, maybe not more than that. The world's changing fast, but not being too topical, not being too now too relevant, and that's not being prescriptive. I urge your people if they want to do a news based, here's what's happening now, here's the trends, speaking into immediate things that might be their style. Go for that. But there's a lot to be said for making your show relevant to audiences that may come across it in a few years from now. So we've had a lot of challenges and bumps along the way and finding the endurance and the energy and the funds to keep it going, but staying in the game.

Sadaf Beynon [20:56 - 21:09]: Yeah. And I assume that's been rewarding, too, to see all those challenges through and overcome them. The morphing, the. What did you say? You talked about the morphing, upskilling, the.

Rob Brown [21:09 - 21:16]: Endurance, the team, the reinvention, keeping it relevant, keeping yourself invigorated.

Sadaf Beynon [21:16 - 21:17]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [21:17 - 21:28]: Because if you lose the passion for the project, then the podcast is ended. And many podcasts end because people just lose the will to do them.

Sadaf Beynon [21:28 - 21:28]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [21:28 - 21:42]: And that's okay. Not everything's forever. Some things might be just for a season, just for a moment in time. Podcasts start up to go with a particular topic, and when that topic dries up, the podcast ends. But it serves a purpose.

Sadaf Beynon [21:42 - 21:43]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [21:43 - 22:38]: And so that's why podcasts are so varied. There is no one formula, there is no one way, there is no one style, there is no one format. And the beauty of you and what you're doing with Podjunction is you're giving people a lot of the options and the strategies and the different ways to do it, the choices, much of which you will do for them, but it's overwhelming. It's not just as simple as turning on a microphone and a webcam and speaking, because what do you do after that? You're just making more noise. So do it purposefully. Get some good advice. Talk to people around you, talk to people you trust, talk to people like you, and start off on the right foot. Rather than just starting a podcast, you're starting with some purpose, with some goal, with some strategy, with a plan. That's good practise. And that would save you a lot of heartache down the line, won't it?

Sadaf Beynon [22:38 - 23:16]: Yeah, for sure. Rob, you've been so complimentary. Thank you. I liked what you said about the point you made about getting a team around you and having someone who really understands the brand and what you're trying to do and achieve. I was thinking, as you were saying, that podcasting is quite personal as well, isn't it? Like, once you get your podcast up and going, it becomes, because it's attached to you as a host, it can become quite A personal thing. And so you want the comms that go out, all the content that goes out, to also reflect you in some sense. Would you say that's right?

Rob Brown [23:16 - 24:40]: For sure. It's your baby, isn't is your brand. And as a former high school math teacher, I'm just thinking of, do you remember at school, the Venn diagrams, the circles that would overlap? So for a lot of people when they start a podcast, the business brand, the corporate brand, the company brand, is one circle and the personal brand, the individual, is another circle. And those two circles overlap a lot because you are the business, you are the ambassador of the brand. Everything you say on the show reflects you and your company. You're the owner, you're the founder, it's all about you. If you are a podcaster that works for a bigger organisation, then those circles might not overlap so much. The things you talk about will be slightly represented in the company. So. But ultimately, if you are the host, you're the drive behind the show, you're the energy or the engine, then it is your baby, it is your brand and you need ownership of that. And when you bring a team and bring other people in, I'm very careful to ensure people understand what I'm trying to do and they believe in what I'm trying to do and they like what I'm trying to do, because I know there'll be a good team member, whether that's salaried or outsourced. I know that it's going to be worth spending money with them and on them and spending time with them. But the other part of ownership is letting go of things, isn't it?

Sadaf Beynon [24:40 - 24:41]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [24:41 - 25:00]: You have to let go of the end product, because if you don't, you're micromanaging and micro editing and looking for rewrites and rebrands and change this and change that. There's a point at which, if people can do it 70, 80% as well as you could do it yourself, you've got to let it go.

Sadaf Beynon [25:00 - 25:00]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [25:00 - 25:31]: And you do get to the point too, where the skills required to turn a podcast into a final product, you can't own all of those skills. Just look how complicated video editing is now. Look how complicated schedule in the show is and scoping out the questions and creating the visuals and the thumbnails and everything else. There's so much more that's involved than used to be with a simple audio Skype type show. So if you've got pride in what you're doing, you do need to let some things go.

Sadaf Beynon [25:31 - 25:32]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [25:32 - 25:45]: Letting them go to the right people. You can't do it all. Otherwise a podcast becomes a full time activity. And if you someone can bankroll you to do that, great. But ultimately you've got to stop doing your podcast and start earning some money.

Sadaf Beynon [25:45 - 25:46]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [25:46 - 26:14]: And that means looking after clients, delivering services, creating products, creating intellectual property, all of that stuff. That's probably where the money comes in. And we might go back to that phrase we used earlier. It's not what the podcast makes for you, it's what it makes of you and what it can do with your brand and all the other things that make you money. Podcasts probably won't make you money. You won't get paid for a podcast, but you will get paid on what a podcast can bring to you.

Sadaf Beynon [26:14 - 26:14]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [26:15 - 26:33]: In terms of clients and revenue generating opportunities. And that requires another level of sophistication and letting go and admitting that while you might be the host of the show, it's not fully your baby anymore. It's a team and you want them to take pride in it just like you do.

Sadaf Beynon [26:33 - 26:44]: Yeah, for sure. Rob, just going back slightly, we were talking about challenges. That's where we started. And I was just wondering if you could share quickly some of the lessons you learned out of those goodness.

Rob Brown [26:44 - 26:50]: Lessons learned. Another way of asking that is, is there anything you might do differently, knowing what you know now?

Sadaf Beynon [26:50 - 26:51]: Okay.

Rob Brown [26:53 - 30:31]: I would have gone to video earlier. One of the things that stopped me moving from Zoom to Riverside, which I use also, was that I didn't understand Riverside. It was a little too much for me technologically. It seems a lot easier now that I'm in it. And you're using the natural too. And this is not a shout out to Riverside that there are others out there. But that was a big deal for me. And getting guests to go to a different room, that wasn't Zoom. I'd use Zoom for years with COVID and the Pandemic, and it was, it was really comfortable. But actually the move from Skype to Zoom was a big deal for me. So that was a lesson learned in that I, I just had to grasp the nettle and spend a few hours learning the new technology rather than putting my head in the sand and pretending I could still do it. Another thing I had to learn was criticism with people saying to me, hey, you do know, don't you, that the quality of Zoom video is not as good as other platforms you could use? Oh, really? I've been doing fine on Zoom for years. Yeah, you might be, but we're moving to more video now and you need to raise your game. Otherwise it's not going to be the quality you want it to be. So you've got to listen to criticism. Criticism of your guests are boring, or you've done that topic before or you don't always listen to the criticism because a lot of it is just trolling and people bitching and moaning and complaining. And indeed, there's a lesson in there that you actually have to be more declarative and more brave and more authoritative and risk upsetting some people in a good podcast because you want to be more bold. Don't be bland, don't be vanilla, don't be beige. Don't play it safe. Put stuff out there that will bite, that will maybe upset a few people, because in upsetting a few people, you'll make a few more people endear to you and love you more. And yeah, I really this guy, I really like this woman. So you've got to be more bold in in your brand and not playing it safe and being willing to change your format and the style of the show. I'll give you an example. The ways we used to start our show was very boring. I'd say something like, hi, it's Rob Brown here, host of the show. We help X to do Y. There's the formula. We help X to do Y. Listen to this show, subscribe on itunes and give us a like and subscribe. Our guest today is Jim blogs. Jim, tell us a bit about yourself. Hi, Rob. Great to be on the show. And it was just those 30, 60 seconds was nothing. It wasn't really helpful. It didn't add any value. But it made me feel comfortable and it made the guests feel comfortable. We don't do that anymore. My introduction for our podcast is something very controversial. I'll give you an example. Our audience is accountants for our. So I might say at the beginning of the show, no music, no nice introduction music that we used to do all blended in and all tapered out. We don't do that anymore. I open the show with artificial intelligence is killing accounting. Accountants are going to be extinct in the next two years. Jim blogs, you're our guest today. Is that true or false? Boom. Straight in there and it's grabbing the audience's attention.

Sadaf Beynon [30:31 - 30:33]: Yeah, it's the hook, the compelling hook.

Rob Brown [30:33 - 31:09]: It is. You don't want people to drop off after 30 seconds. So that's something I've had to let go of. I used to love the nice music and the outro music and the intro. And I used to edit Those myself and phase them in and out and put at the end of the show. You've been listening to the Accounting Influencers podcast. We do this and this, and you can find us on itunes and Apple and YouTube and everything. No, when we end the show. Now, we end the show. Thanks for listening. See you on the next show. Because people don't want that. They want pure value. They don't want the fluff.

Sadaf Beynon [31:09 - 31:11]: Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Rob Brown [31:11 - 32:01]: So lessons along the way. They're only lessons if you learn from them, you're willing to do something about them. But like Madonna and people like that, they keep reinventing themselves. They keep finding reasons to be relevant and different ways to appeal to different audiences as the world evolves. I don't know if I'll be doing this for much longer. I don't know how long left I've got in the game, having had the stroke and my health issues. Every day is a blessing. God promises tomorrow to nobody. So we're enjoying the journey while it happens. If our podcast stops tomorrow, the world will still turn. So I'm not too vain to think that the world revolves around our podcast and people are going to be really disappointed. But we're playing a small part in the podcast ecosystem. We're doing our bit.

Sadaf Beynon [32:01 - 32:06]: Yeah, that's cool. Rob, if you could achieve your dream result from your podcast, what would that look like?

Rob Brown [32:07 - 32:12]: A dream result? The audience should know that I've not heard these questions in advance, so things.

Sadaf Beynon [32:12 - 32:13]: Like, no, you haven't.

Rob Brown [32:14 - 33:48]: If you have a moment to think about that, you might come up with some very articulate answer. My podcast has already achieved its objective. If I stop tomorrow, I'll be happy. And the objective is that it's given me a much deeper network and credibility with lots of super interesting and important people. So I would have no regrets about the show ending next week. And that's a nice place to be in. Maybe I've earned that after doing it for seven, eight years. I wouldn't want to answer that question by saying, we want 10,000 followers or this many lifetime downloads. If people say Rob Brown, great interviewer, did a great podcast for a few years. I was interviewed by Rob Brown. I. I enjoyed being a guest on the show. Rob Brown gave me a little bit of impetus to do my own podcast. That's good enough for me. When you get a little bit older, I found your ego gets less. Now, for some people, their ego never stops and it sometimes gets bigger. So there's a flip to that. We look at some of the older Celebrities now and they yearn the spotlight still like they always did. But I'm less concerned now about what people think of me as I grow older. Yeah, maybe some of the younger influences. You care more about that and I understand that you're building your brand, but I've been doing this a while now and it's not that I could care less what people think. It's always nice to get great encouragement on the show. I listen to the show, I like it, but it's less about Rob Brown and it's more about. It's more about keeping the show going.

Sadaf Beynon [33:48 - 34:01]: Yeah. When we started, you said your goal was to network and establish yourself and it sounds like, as you say, you've already achieved that. And nice to hear you say no regrets. That's nice, that's refreshing.

Rob Brown [34:01 - 35:05]: No regrets. The journey could end tomorrow and I'd be glad to have been in the game and played a part, a small part in the grand scheme of things. There are podcasts out there with millions of listeners and a very sophisticated engine that puts them out there. But our show, it's just like many people, it's a small time show with a few hundred listens a month sometimes. And I don't get upset about that. It's. Life's too short to be upset about it. We just gotta play the game and play our part and contribute a little bit and. But a podcast is a wonderful invention. It's a way to get a message out to people as they go about their day, to get into their head, their headphones, their phone, whatever it is, and share something of value. And to that end, it's great what you're doing, Saraf. You're making the barrier to entry lower in giving them access to all of the behind the scenes stuff that they need to turn that dream, that idea into a reality.

Sadaf Beynon [35:06 - 35:13]: Yes, absolutely. That is our aim. Thank you, Rob. Where can our listeners find out more about you and your podcast?

Rob Brown [35:14 - 35:16]: Well, we're on. I'm on YouTube.

Sadaf Beynon [35:16 - 35:17]: Okay.

Rob Brown [35:17 - 36:10]: Accounting influencers. And you've got a very, very mature. I would imagine very few of them are accountants and own accounting firms. So it's not particularly about that. But yeah, accounting influencers on YouTube and Rob Brown is on LinkedIn. That's a place where I don't have a website. I find to create a different place for people to go is problematic. We do have our podcasts on the website, but generally people will find. Well, my kind of audience will find you on LinkedIn and YouTube. So I'll connect with people there if they want to have a conversation. But otherwise, my call to action as a parting gift to the audience is to take a bold step. So many people are scared by a podcast or starting a channel or starting a show or all these negative thoughts. Will people listen? Will it be relevant to people? Start it anyway. Do it for you.

Sadaf Beynon [36:10 - 36:24]: Yeah, absolutely. I'm fully behind that. Well, thanks, Rob, for those. For those links. We will add them to the show notes. And thank you so much. It's been really great to hear about your podcasting journey and learn from your insights.

Rob Brown [36:25 - 36:40]: It's been challenging with your questions just to think about the journey because we forget about where we've come from, from, and the steps along the way and the challenges and what we've had to overcome. Because like many business people, your next thought is, what is next?

Sadaf Beynon [36:40 - 36:41]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [36:41 - 36:49]: What's tomorrow? And we forget about what was done yesterday and the years before. So it's been lovely to reflect on our journey.

Sadaf Beynon [36:49 - 36:49]: Yeah.

Rob Brown [36:49 - 37:01]: And where I've come from with the show and what I've overcome. And that's life, isn't it? It's a series of overcoming obstacles and taking the wins. So, sure. Thank you for having me involved.

Sadaf Beynon [37:02 - 37:31]: No, no problem. Well, that's a wrap on another great conversation. A huge thanks to Rob for joining us and sharing his inspiring journey. Thanks for tuning in to the Podjunction podcast. For transcripts or show notes, head over to podjunction.com and if you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a conversation. And if you're ready to grow your business through podcasting, I'd love to help. Please feel free to reach out to me anytime on LinkedIn. Otharfbainen. So, from Rob and I, thanks for listening and bye for now.