Podcasting and Founding Cap​ti​vate​.fm | Mark Asquith

Sadaf Beynon [0:06 - 0:14]: Welcome back to Podjunction Podcast, where podcasters learn to grow their business. My name is Sadaf Beynon and beside me is Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson [0:14 - 0:15]: Good evening.

Sadaf Beynon [0:16 - 0:17]: Or morning.

Matt Edmundson [0:18 - 0:21]: Just pick any time of the day. It'll be fine. Depending on when you're listening to this, I suppose.

Sadaf Beynon [0:21 - 0:54]: Yeah, I suppose. All right, so today we have Mark Asquith, who is the founder of Captivate. Thank you, Matt. Mark is also known as that British podcast guy. You might have heard of him, that British podcast guy. Yeah. He'll go more into it in the segment, but in this particular episode you're going to hear how he spotted a game changing gap in podcasting tech and created Captivate, which is a platform built to make podcasting simpler for creators.

Matt Edmundson [0:54 - 0:57]: Very good. Is that straight off their website?

Sadaf Beynon [0:58 - 0:58]: No.

Matt Edmundson [0:58 - 1:00]: Did you make that up?

Sadaf Beynon [1:00 - 1:05]: Ish. I took information from here, there and everywhere and put it together.

Matt Edmundson [1:05 - 2:06]: Okay, very good, very good. Yeah. Captivate, just so you know, is the platform we use for our podcasts. So when it comes to podcasting, you've got to host the audio for the podcast somewhere. And we host it on Captivate and Captivate push it out to all the sites. Like I was going to say Shopify. No, Spotify. Always get those two mix up. Why did they have to name them so similar? What's wrong with these people? And Apple podcasts and all those sorts of things. So there's plenty out there we've we used in the past. Who did we use before? Captivate. Do you remember the name of the. It's totally escaped me. They're a really well known one as well. Libsyn. Let's say we used in the past. You've got Anchor.fm. I mean, there's all kinds of people out there. But we do really like Captivate. Yeah. And. But they are British. Terribly British. Don't you know? So it's very good to have a British company on. Absolutely. So I'm looking forward to this one. You get to meet Mark. You get to chat to Mark. Very good. Did he teach you about microphone technique by.

Sadaf Beynon [2:06 - 2:08]: No, he didn't. I didn't ask.

Matt Edmundson [2:10 - 2:21]: Excellent. So we've been having, ladies and gentlemen, this ongoing battle in the studio with trying to figure out how to get Sadaf to use her microphone in the correct manner.

Sadaf Beynon [2:21 - 2:25]: Yes. We're in episode 56 and still going.

Matt Edmundson [2:25 - 3:01]: Still trying to figure it out. You have this amazing ability and the problem that we have, and maybe you've got this if you're podcasting as well. The problem that we have is you like to move when you talk yes. And so you tend to move forwards when you get excited about things. Today we've got Mark ask. The microphone stays where it is. So as you move forward, the microphone kind of does this thing where it goes under your chin, which I just say. I mean, it looks funny on video as it is, but it goes under your chin and we just get the tones, the sort of the reverb from the throat.

Sadaf Beynon [3:01 - 3:08]: Yes. Sorry about that. But maybe there will be a Christmas miracle. Christmas is coming up. We'll see.

Matt Edmundson [3:09 - 3:25]: Yes. Tis the season for hope, good cheer and miracles. And Sadaf will learn how to use the microphone accordingly. Just put your hand on it. Just move it like that. You know, we need to get it set up better for you, maybe as well. Maybe we should get you one of those headset mics.

Sadaf Beynon [3:25 - 3:26]: No.

Matt Edmundson [3:26 - 3:28]: You know, like the Madonna type mic. No.

Sadaf Beynon [3:31 - 3:32]: Cramped my style.

Matt Edmundson [3:37 - 3:54]: Oh, dear. How does it work? Who knows? Anyway, a very warm welcome to you if this is your first time with us. Thanks for joining us. We do love to talk about all things podcasting, especially good mic technique. It's an important thing, apparently, when you're podcasting to position the microphone in such a way that it does pick up your voice.

Sadaf Beynon [3:54 - 3:54]: Yes.

Matt Edmundson [3:54 - 4:15]: As we are discovering. But, yeah, very warm welcome to you. Make sure you, like, subscribe and do all of those cool things because, you know, it's. I think it's a really good show. I really enjoy doing this show. It's just really funny. Yeah, we just laugh a lot. What was it? Yeah, no, it's quite often at mine as well, to be fair. And what was it you said to.

Sadaf Beynon [4:15 - 4:19]: Me earlier on that you embarrassed me on this on the podcast?

Matt Edmundson [4:19 - 4:22]: Yeah, yeah. And I said, no, I think you do it all by yourself.

Sadaf Beynon [4:26 - 4:26]: Yes.

Matt Edmundson [4:26 - 4:33]: Any help from me? Sometimes. But, yes, it's quite good fun. We do like a bit of banter.

Sadaf Beynon [4:33 - 4:33]: We do.

Matt Edmundson [4:33 - 4:39]: Keeps it entertaining. So without further ado, should we listen to Mark and then come back to chatting about Mark?

Sadaf Beynon [4:39 - 4:40]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [4:40 - 4:43]: And what he's got to say. Okay, all right, let me press the button. Here's Mark.

Sadaf Beynon [4:43 - 4:55]: You've been in the podcasting space for over a decade now, and you've seen the industry evolve quite significantly. Could you take us back to where it all began for you? What drew you to into podcasting?

Mark Asquith [4:56 - 8:18]: Yeah, it's sort of an interesting story, I think one that people relate to that listen to Podjunction, but I think one that is very common, yet also quite personal. And I think that's a very interesting theme for a lot of podcasters. Anyway, so I Was. I was a small business owner. I was a design agency owner. Built design and brand and software agency here in the north of England. Used to do fantastic work for fantastic clients. Everything from grassroots businesses right up to multinationals, blue chip companies, people like the Art Directors Club in New York, a lot of multinational stuff. So it was really interesting stuff. But I was, I think it was, I want to say, about 2011, I was starting to get a little bit bored of it. We'd grown to a big enough size where everyone was comfortable. We were earning, you know, fine money, but I was getting a little bit bored. I was getting a little bit, you know, I think, frustrate with agency life, always having to pitch for new clients and just this kind of complete hamster wheel constantly, which it would just. It was just dull to me. So I was looking for more of a creative outlet. And I'm big into pop culture. If anyone's watching a video version of this or ever seen me on video from here in my home office, you'll see there's loads of memorabilia, Star wars stuff, DC Comics stuff. I'm a big pop culture nerd. So I started writing with a friend of mine, Gary Ehlert, about pop culture on a website that we called Two Shots to the Head. And that became a podcast. And from there I started, I suppose, the classic interview podcast. This is really back in, like, maybe 2013 now. So we've done the podcast pop culture show for a couple of years. And I started. I started my own interview podcast in business. And it was mainly for two reasons. To kind of help people out in small business, but also to just position myself as a bit of a thinker in small business locally. But what happened was that I very quickly realized that the podcasting technological elements of podcasting, at least those parts of it, were very broken. There wasn't much out there. There was not many hosting platforms out there. Technology was difficult. There's no need for it to be that difficult. So I thought I found myself in an interesting position. I was here in the uk. No one else was into podcasting. That's why I've got that British podcast guy, Monica. I used to go and speak at all these events, and I was literally one of the only British people there. And because I was generally the one speaking out of all of us Brits that were there, I just. I became. That became my thing. So I very quickly start to put. Start to put together sort of solutions for podcasters, you know, web platforms for podcasters and so on and so forth, and just I sort of just got into the industry, got to know everyone in the industry, started working in the industry, built businesses in the industry, and then I think in 2017, it was. We. I segued out of my agency, we got rid of the agency. I was, like I said, very bored of it. Moved into being a software company through our podcasting technology, and then founded Captivate, the hosting platform that people generally know us for today, which in turn was then acquired by global back in 2021. And I still run that, still, you know, basically do the same job as I did before. So, yeah, quite an interesting little tale, really, but it's. It's certainly one rooted in small business, which is quite interesting.

Sadaf Beynon [8:18 - 8:38]: Yeah, that is really interesting. And you're right. This is what our, what Pod Junction is about. So this is perfect. You talked about you wanted to start creating solutions for podcasters. Was that based on your own experience and stuff that you wanted to be able to have at your fingertips to make life, your podcasting life easier for you? Is that where that came from?

Mark Asquith [8:38 - 10:43]: I think that that's certainly where we, we moved to with Captivate. Initially, it was very much around just taking the knowledge that we had and helping because actually, let me, let me go back a little bit. Most podcasters, back in 2014, 15, when I, I started making technology here, were either like the, the entertainment celebrity podcast, Kevin Smith and those people, Joe Rogan's of the World, or there was like this massive entrepreneur thing. You know, it was like, oh, if you're a quote unquote entrepreneur, you gotta have a podcast. It's quick route to six figures. Absolute rubbish, complete rubbish. But that's what everyone was selling. You know, you had people selling that, that dream. So I sort of spotted that gap with my co founder, Kieran, and we said, well, wait a minute, most of these people are going to want a way to display that podcast publicly, a way to host it a little bit easier than they've currently got the ability to do in terms of a hosting platform and to bring everything together in terms of tech stacks. So that's what we started doing. So it was, Yeah, I mean, it was, it was to scratch my own itch, but it was more about. I'd spotted the opportunity, but then because I became a much more seasoned podcaster really quickly, you know, I'm probably sat here now 10, 10 years, 11 years, 12 years into this, probably done 1700 podcast episodes. I would guess I became seasoned quite quickly. And that's when I started seeing things like, oh, actually, maybe we could make the hosting element easier using Captivate. Or maybe now we've got a podcast hosting platform. Maybe we could add these features to make my life easier, which in turn would make everyone's life easier, which is where the brand of Captivate really grew and elevated from, was just, you know, a complete lack of competitor awareness. We just didn't care. We didn't. We purposely didn't look at other competitors because otherwise you end up just sort of mimicking them doing whatever they're doing. So, yeah, that. Yeah, it was certainly to scratch my own itch, but to start with, it was very much around the technology space in podcasting. Just wasn't very good back then.

Sadaf Beynon [10:47 - 10:55]: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson [11:00 - 12:33]: Welcome back. That's interesting, listening to Mark talk, listening to him talk about the beginnings of Captivate. And I like how he talked about, and this is true for so many companies, how there was a problem, a gap, and he just thought, I'll solve that. And then years later, Captivate is the platform that we use to host our podcast. And so I kind of like that. I like that. That way of thinking which says, there's a problem, let's go solve it, let's make it better. And he talked about how Captivate, he sort of built around this idea of, oh, I'd really like this feature. Let's add that. Yeah, because that's how we built amp, which is. It's kind of like an internal platform we use to manage all of our podcasts, because there was nothing out there on the market that kind of did what we needed it to do. And so we just. I mean, we were fortunate in the sense that we had a development team that worked in our E. Com business. And so we're just like, can we make this? And they're like, sure. Well, it wasn't quite that easy, but in essence, that's what happened, wasn't it? And it's kind of like, what features can we have that we want? How do we use it? Let's develop it. And that becomes just sort of your phase one. And so it's really interesting listening to him talk about that with Captivate, and that's how they did it. And, yeah, I really like that. I really like that. How did you find. How did you find the interview with Mark? It seems like it seemed like an interesting chap.

Sadaf Beynon [12:33 - 12:44]: Yeah, it was. There's another. We're going to do another segment with him next week, so you get a bit more insight into that. But yeah, I mean, like, he definitely knows what he's talking about. He's been in the game for a long time, isn't he?

Matt Edmundson [12:45 - 12:45]: Been there, seen it all.

Sadaf Beynon [12:45 - 13:21]: Yeah. And so it was. It was interesting getting his. His take on it. And especially, like in the next. In the next segment as well, we go more into using podcasting as a business tool. So, yeah, it was. It was good. I agree with what you said. Like, him spotting that one opportunity. So it came. He had a challenge and he wanted to, you know, figure it out. And he also talked about being a seasoned podcaster. And I think, like, where you've got. The more you're doing something, you do quickly become seasoned in it, and you do see all the. All the areas that are not quite, like, you know, the gaps.

Matt Edmundson [13:21 - 13:22]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [13:22 - 13:43]: And having the mindset to be like, okay, I'm gonna fix. I'm gonna figure this out because it's gonna make my life easier. Or how did he say it? Like, scratch my own itch or something. I think that's. That's a really good mindset to have because otherwise you're always just working in the parameters that you're. You've been given and then you don't actually grow.

Matt Edmundson [13:43 - 13:56]: Yeah, no, so true. It's a very entrepreneurial mindset, and I think you have to be like that when you're a podcaster. I don't think you have to necessarily be an entrepreneur, but I think you have to have that mindset in the podcast.

Sadaf Beynon [13:56 - 13:57]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [13:57 - 14:22]: And your approach to it, which says there are going to be problems, there are things that we're going to face, there are going to be gaps that we kind of figure out. And so you. I think your pod. What did we say earlier on before? You're constantly tweaking. Like you said to me earlier on, I'm going to change the intro to the Podjunction podcast. Is that constantly tweaking and iterating? Some of them are minor things, like you might tweak the word in the intro or whatever.

Sadaf Beynon [14:22 - 14:22]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [14:23 - 15:32]: Some of them are quite major, aren't they, as you go along. But spotting those gaps, spotting where, how you can make it different, figuring out what it is that you want. And when you look back, what episode did you say we're on? 56. Is that right on the board? Geez, man. So here we are, 56 episodes into it. It looks very different to episode one, but it's still recognizable, if that makes sense. And so having that mindset, which Is adaptable, which sees the gaps. Um, and it's just good, I think, every now and again, just to stop and think. And so I. I guess the thing here for us is what would we change about the podcast, knowing what we know now? Right. So what would we do differently going forward? The formats pretty much stayed the same. So you, me, chat, we have a guest on the show. Yeah, we take a snippet, we chat about that snippet. And that's evolved a little bit over time. But we. That's the basic format which stayed the same. Some of the things we've changed. But here we are, episode 56, thinking about going forward. What are some of the things that you'd like to see different about the show? Or is there not anything.

Sadaf Beynon [15:32 - 15:39]: Is it perfect for me to be able to use the mic? That would be a good starting point. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [15:39 - 15:40]: Good mic technique.

Sadaf Beynon [15:40 - 15:48]: Yeah. Are you talking just about this?

Matt Edmundson [15:48 - 15:49]: Yeah, yeah, that part. Junction.

Sadaf Beynon [15:49 - 16:27]: Okay. I guess I would extend it out a bit because, like we mentioned before, we're always talking, tweaking it as we go. So I don't. It's not like I've got this big, you know, vision at the end of this, whatever, and I'm trying to get to that. I'm quite happy where we are right now, but I think from a perspective of listeners, audience, community, I think that I would like to be able to do more, to be able to understand what our listeners like about the show, what they don't like about that, and then being able to make the tweaks that would need to be made in this space. Um, I think that's something I would like to. To change.

Matt Edmundson [16:27 - 16:49]: Yeah, that's a. That's a very key point, I think, listening, figuring out what your listeners want. And actually, the only. You know, if you're listening to this, the only way we know what you want is if you tell us we don't know who you are. I mean, that's the thing about podcasting. It's quite anonymous. It's not like. Well, even it's a bit more tricky now with Facebook. And, you know, it's not like you can come to my website and then I can start advertising to you.

Sadaf Beynon [16:49 - 16:49]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [16:50 - 17:38]: And with podcasting, you listen to the podcast, we have no idea who you are unless you get in touch. And so do do that. Do let us know if there's anything you'd like to have different about the show. Anything that you think is good is not good. What would you change? What would you do differently? Because I think this. This Constant tweaking, I think is. Is a good idea. This constant evolution, this entrepreneurial mindset. So thinking about your own podcast, then, you know, dear listener, how would you change it? How would you evolve it? Where does it need to go? What are the gaps that you see? Because it's interesting. Listening to Mark talk, he said, oh, we didn't really care what the competition was doing. We just did our own thing and just got on with it. And when we started Podjunction, we never. I. We did the exact opposite we always tell everybody to do in the sense that we didn't do any research.

Sadaf Beynon [17:38 - 17:39]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [17:40 - 17:53]: At least I don't think we did. We didn't do any research into this. Who's talking about podcasts? Who's doing podcasts about podcasting? What's working, what's not working? Who's got them? You know, who's built up a good following? Why. Why do people watch the free. All the stuff that you. That we do.

Sadaf Beynon [17:53 - 17:55]: Yeah. That we tell our clients to do.

Matt Edmundson [17:56 - 18:03]: We did none of that. None of that. We did. There's a chunk of it we didn't do. With Pod Junction, we're just like, let's just start.

Sadaf Beynon [18:03 - 18:04]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:04 - 18:17]: Because we had so many people that we could talk to. And actually with Podjunction, the. One of the key things that we wanted to do was to talk to people like Mark and all the other guests that have been on the show, just to pick their brains.

Sadaf Beynon [18:17 - 18:18]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:18 - 18:24]: About. It was more for us, I think, in terms of helping us grow in our.

Sadaf Beynon [18:25 - 18:25]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:26 - 18:59]: Skills as a podcaster. And so going and talking to other podcasters and picking their brains is easy to do because you just invite them onto a podcast because they're podcasters. They're going to say yes. Right. And they're going to tell you all their secrets, because that's what podcasters do. And so I think we started more for us than we did for trying to build an audience. And here we are, episode 56. And so, yeah, you know, we get some great people on the show, which is. She's quite lovely. But, yeah, that. I love that, Mark. We were the same. And care what anyone else is doing. I've never even looked at the download stats for this show.

Sadaf Beynon [18:59 - 19:18]: No, I haven't either. But, Matt, I have a question for you. Okay, so thinking about our podcast, what is there something that you believe is true, but there's no data to prove it? What do you think? Like, yeah, just a gut feeling. And what would you. What would you do about.

Matt Edmundson [19:19 - 22:12]: About Podjunction? That's a really good Question. So what do I think is true? I think that the. I. I've mentioned this before in the sense that I. I think it's an unusual format. Right. So typically, as Mark talked about in his segment, you know, he started off with your typical interview podcast, which in essence could be a default route for Podjunction. You talk to these guys, right? So we could say, right, with Podjunction, we just. Every episode, we just release a new interview with a new podcaster. So you do the interview with Mark. That's one episode. Whoever is after Mark, that's the next episode. And that's. That would be the traditional route to go down. And in some respects, if you're trying to use podcasting to build a network, it's better because you get to talk to more people, you get to connect with more people, whereas this way we get maybe 12, 15 guests on a year, which means, in some respects, it's less onerous in getting guests. The issue then becomes recording these podcasts, which is, I suppose, a little bit easier because it's you and me, we're in the office, we're just sit down in front of a microphone in the studio and do it. So I think that the format is a little bit quirky, and that's probably what I believe about Podjunction, in the sense that I think it's quite. We're quite quirky. Do I have any data to back this up? No, in the sense that there's banter, there's usually either you're laughing at me or I'm laughing at you, or we're both laughing at each other. Either way, there's some laughter going on, which is quite fun. I like the fact that we have a clip from the interview and then we chat about it in the context of our own podcast. So asking you, how would you change Podjunction, I think, is an interesting question, because it. I don't know. These are things that I believe. Do I have the data to uphold this? No. I could look at the downloads and I can say, is it growing? I could look at the engagement stats, say, on YouTube. Is that growing? Are people listening to longer and longer segments of the show? Where do people normally drop out? I could really get into the weeds, but there's a number of reasons why I haven't. One, I don't think I need to. And that's not an arrogance thing. It's because, again, one of the key reasons for doing Podjunction is because I'm really keen to learn from other podcasters. Right. If I was doing this purely as A business. Like, if this was the sole source of my income, then, yes, I would look at the data and I would be very on top of that, trying to create the best show, go and get the best sponsors and all that sort of. But I'm also very aware that we have to manage diaries.

Sadaf Beynon [22:12 - 22:13]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:14 - 22:39]: And, you know, we have a limitation on what we can and can't do. So I've never really got into the data on this particular podcast. Maybe I should. Maybe I should really have a look at it again. I'm telling. I'm doing. I'm doing all the stuff that I tell people not to do. I'm not doing the stuff that I tell people to do is probably a better way to put it. But that would be my long answer to your question. I think it's quite a quirky format, which means, in my head, it's quite entertaining.

Sadaf Beynon [22:39 - 22:39]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:39 - 22:47]: Because I quite enjoy it. I quite look forward to doing these episodes. In fact, there's not a podcast that I don't look forward to, but I do look forward to these because they are different.

Sadaf Beynon [22:47 - 22:47]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:48 - 23:01]: It's like you and me. This. The only thing that's missing is a coffee. Although you've got a plant pot for your water. Let me show this on video. I'm sorry. I've got us water. Is that warm water as well?

Sadaf Beynon [23:01 - 23:02]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [23:02 - 23:06]: Geez. Okay. So I keep clearing my throats.

Sadaf Beynon [23:06 - 23:08]: I'm hoping that will work.

Matt Edmundson [23:08 - 23:08]: Yeah. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [23:08 - 23:09]: Help me.

Matt Edmundson [23:09 - 23:16]: A bit of lemon. Bit of honey in there. Yeah, it'll be helpful. A bit of whiskey. Hot Topic.

Sadaf Beynon [23:16 - 23:18]: That'll make this podcast really interesting.

Matt Edmundson [23:19 - 23:26]: She's snoozing in the corner. But yeah, I. I've lost complete track.

Sadaf Beynon [23:26 - 23:29]: I don't know. Something to do with water.

Matt Edmundson [23:29 - 23:46]: Something to do with water. But no, I do. I do look forward to these episodes and I. Which is why I don't need to get into the data. It's not an arrogance thing, is the format really works for me, but I just. I don't know if it works for everybody that's listening to the show because I've not looked at the data to back it up.

Sadaf Beynon [23:46 - 24:02]: Yeah. I think if you're using your podcast as a business, like, as a business tool, you know, you're trying to get clients from it, then I think you have a different outlook on it. Whereas for us, I feel like it's more of a means to an end.

Matt Edmundson [24:02 - 24:02]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [24:02 - 24:10]: And so I think we can just kind of have fun along the way and don't have to get into the. Into the data as Much.

Matt Edmundson [24:10 - 24:14]: It's actually a beautiful position to be in, isn't it? In many ways. And I'm very grateful for that.

Sadaf Beynon [24:14 - 24:20]: And also, the downloads don't really mean a whole lot of. A whole lot of anything, really.

Matt Edmundson [24:20 - 24:21]: And they're becoming less and less important.

Sadaf Beynon [24:21 - 24:22]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [24:22 - 25:06]: Which is. I mean, let me say that differently. They are an important figure. Right. How many people download the podcast? Because you can. If you've got a thousand this week and 2000 next week, you can see that your podcast is growing. So it does indicate growth. What it doesn't indicate is listenership, because I have. I subscribe to I don't even know how many podcasts. Right. And I use the. I've mentioned this before. I use the podcast listening app, Snipped, which is great. I really like it. And the way it works for me is every once a week, usually on a Friday, I'll open up the podcast app and I'll go down the podcast, which are downloaded onto my phone. So that's a download. And I will.

Sadaf Beynon [25:06 - 25:07]: Automatic download.

Matt Edmundson [25:07 - 25:30]: Yeah, yeah. And then I will choose which ones of those I'm going to listen to by adding them to my playlist queue, which you can do on Snip. So you can create a queue of podcasts that I want to listen to, and it will just go down and it will do them, and I can. Everything else gets archived, just gets deleted. And it's not that I'm not unsubscribing to the show because I'm genuinely interested in the show. Just that episode.

Sadaf Beynon [25:30 - 25:32]: You just don't have that many hours in the day.

Matt Edmundson [25:32 - 27:32]: Yeah, I don't have that many hours. And I've totally decided on the base of the title whether or not to listen to that show. Right. And like. Well, let me give you a case in point. Right. I'll open up my app on my phone. So I'm listening to an episode of Carey Newhoff's podcast. He's got Seth Godin on, and they're talking about marketing. And I thought, actually, that's going to be really interesting, but I must have deleted five or six episodes of Carrie's podcast on my phone Archived, before deciding which ones to listen to. So I've got one on here about rediscovering Christmas one Are we sleepwalking into War? Which I thought was quite an interesting title. But if I go to the. On my app. So I've got all of these podcasts here, loads of podcasts. And so Carrie's podcast, Secrecy and exposure in leadership, how your body keeps Something or other. I'm just not interested. So I would archive that politics one like British Politics, but bigger. I have no idea what that means. I'm archiving that. We've got the liberty of Obedience. That sounds interesting. Then I've got Dr. Shauna Swan, how to safeguard your hormone health and fertility. I'm like, I'm out. And that's the Huberman Lab podcast. But I'm like, yeah, I don't even need to see that. I don't know what that's about. Just mean. So I can. I can scroll down Modern wisdom Samurai Travis Kelsh. Only fans in New York. Chaos Got only fans in there. And genuinely, I'm not interested in only fans. I'm going to archive that. Liverpool go top Arsenal and Man City stumble. The rest is football podcast that is definitely going on my playlist just because I'm a big Liverpool fan. So just what I mean, this is how I. How I do it. So this is why downloads don't mean a whole great deal. All of those podcasts were downloaded, but I listened to maybe one in four.

Sadaf Beynon [27:32 - 27:45]: But also the ones that you do listen to, there's no data to say when you stop listening to it. So, you know, you can. Someone could start listening to this and after 90 seconds decide, no, this isn't for me. And you wouldn't know that.

Matt Edmundson [27:45 - 27:47]: Yep. And that happens quite a lot.

Sadaf Beynon [27:47 - 27:48]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [27:48 - 28:07]: And nor do you have any, like, with again, the way Snip works, the guy Apple. The way Apple podcasts work is like, take Carey Carrie's podcast. I love Carrie's podcast. I'd maybe listen to one in five episodes. Right. But I also. I've listened to him for years talk about leadership, but at the same time, I know the first five minutes are absolute waffle.

Sadaf Beynon [28:07 - 28:08]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [28:08 - 29:02]: Right. They're all the sponsor breaks, they're all this, that and the other. So I can just go, da, da, da, da, da, da. And straight into that bit. Right. And stimped again. Makes that easier because you can just swipe just AI just goes. Yeah, you just swipe through that. So you don't know what bit I listen to. You don't know what bit is engaging. And that's kind of hard data, I think, to get from podcasts. I think I dare say Mark will tell me that's going to change at some point and that would be useful data. But again, you don't know. It's not like YouTube. You can go to the YouTube video and see when people dropped out, you know, average retention rates and stuff like that it doesn't work as well, which is why I'm really intrigued about YouTube as a podcast platform. So Google podcast I don't think is around anymore, but YouTube are. They were trying to promote podcasts through their platform. Whether that actually takes off or not, I don't know. But it'd be really interesting just again, because of the data that they give you.

Sadaf Beynon [29:02 - 29:03]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [29:03 - 29:39]: Kind of say a big shout out to Mark for coming on the show. And if you are looking for a podcast platform, then do check out Captivate fm. We genuinely like it. All our podcasts are now on. Just scrolling through all the podcasts in my head. Yes, we've moved them all on to Captivate FM. The way we do it is we use Captivate FM and YouTube. So we put the videos on YouTube and then you can get podcasts through YouTube or Captivate FM and either way works for us, you know. But we do really like Captivate. There are some really great features on there. There's lots of features that we don't use mainly because we probably not got.

Sadaf Beynon [29:40 - 29:45]: Well, I think the other thing is we've used it primarily as a hosting platform and it's so much more. More than that.

Matt Edmundson [29:45 - 30:40]: Yeah, it is. It really is. So, yeah, do. Do check it out. Go have a look if you're looking for a podcast hosting platform, because we're just going to give it a bit of love. Like I say, there are other podcast platforms out there and maybe we'll get some of those guys on the show as well at some point. But good start with Mark, CEO of Captivate fm, our favorite hosting podcast platform, and they don't sponsor the show. But Mark, if you wanted to feel the freedom, we can put one of those sponsor sections at the start of the podcast that everyone fast forwards. It's like that's going to work really well. So maybe we should talk about that in a separate podcast. But no, I really enjoyed that. Thanks, Mark, for coming on. Makes you think again about the podcast. What's working, what's not working. Find them, find the spots, the gaps, tweak it. Be entrepreneurial in your mindset and amazing things should hopefully happen. Have I missed anything?

Sadaf Beynon [30:40 - 30:41]: No, all good.

Matt Edmundson [30:41 - 30:51]: Awesome. Hey, listen, thank you so much for joining us this week. If you would like to connect with us, do so on social media. You're at.

Sadaf Beynon [30:53 - 30:54]: I am.

Matt Edmundson [30:55 - 30:58]: I didn't realize this would be such a tricky question.

Sadaf Beynon [30:58 - 30:59]: iamsadafbeynon.

Matt Edmundson [31:01 - 31:02]: Are you sure?

Sadaf Beynon [31:03 - 31:09]: On Instagram and Sadaf Beynon on LinkedIn.

Matt Edmundson [31:10 - 31:33]: Yeah, I'm just at Matt Edmundson on Both. I just went the easy route. So come find me or Sadaf. Genuinely, let us know what you like about the show, what you don't like. We always like feedback. Do be kind with your feedback, but be, you know, honest. Honest but kind. That sounds like a really good chocolate brand. Honest but kind. Or a skincare brand. There you go.

Sadaf Beynon [31:33 - 31:33]: Skincare.

Matt Edmundson [31:33 - 32:05]: Yeah, yeah, not chocolate. Skincare. Honest but kind. Anyway, thank you so much. Connect with us. Let us know. And as I said at the start, if you haven't done so already, just make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that good stuff because, you know, we've got more great conversations coming up. Another one with Mark, episode 57, which we don't want you to miss. Then I take it episode 58 is going to be the full interview, which you are definitely going to want to check out. So do come join us for that. But until then, that's it from me. That's it from you?

Sadaf Beynon [32:05 - 32:05]: Yep.

Matt Edmundson [32:05 - 32:05]: You sure?

Sadaf Beynon [32:06 - 32:06]: I am sure.

Matt Edmundson [32:06 - 32:08]: Okay. All right, bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon [32:12 - 32:46]: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Pod Junction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't Forget to visit podjunction.com where you'll find more information about how you can Podjunction Junction cohort. Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.