Key Metrics to Measure Podcast Success | Peter Murphy Lewis

Peter Murphy Lewis | How to Measure Podcast Success

[00:00:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast, a show for podcasters using their podcast to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon and with me is the most excellent Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson: There's a reference there

Sadaf Beynon: that

Matt Edmundson: if you're not familiar with movies from the 80s, might have passed you by. Uh, most excellent, the Bill and Ted's, which is why I did that.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay. I don't know Bill and Ted. No. Ish. Kind of. I do. What? Have

Matt Edmundson: you never seen Bill and Ted's? Uh, uh, there's three films, I think. The third one, which came out recently, was absolutely rubbish.

But the first one, epic.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay. I think Jeff's tried to show me something. I don't remember

Matt Edmundson: Well at least your husbands doing his duty you should definitely be watching that.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: I can't believe you've not seen Bill and Ted's.

Sadaf Beynon: I'll see what I can do. Wow. I'll

Matt Edmundson: So that reference,

Sadaf Beynon: diddly diddly, was

Matt Edmundson: totally passionate about

[00:01:00] you.

Matt Edmundson: Well, welcome to Podjunction, ladies and gentlemen, where we talk about 80s trivia and high school Sadaf in all things 1980s, the decade that seems to have passed her by.

Yes. Is that because you're too young?

Sadaf Beynon: No, I'm not too young. It's because I spent the 80s in Pakistan.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow. Okay. And where did you spend the 90s?

Sadaf Beynon: Also, mostly in Pakistan.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. And the Noughties?

Sadaf Beynon: In Canada.

Matt Edmundson: Okay.

Sadaf Beynon: Anyway, so today we are going to be Still

Matt Edmundson: can't believe you've not I'd have thought they'd have shown that in Pakistan because it's very historical.

Is

Sadaf Beynon: it?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's where they go on a journey through time and they do this most excellent school report at the end of the year.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay, I'll see what I can do, but anyway.

Matt Edmundson: The kids will love it. They'll learn a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: So let's move. Have you? Have you gotten

Sadaf Beynon: over that? I have no idea. I don't

Matt Edmundson: think I've gotten over it yet.

It's going to take me a little while.

Sadaf Beynon: [00:02:00] All right. So, um, this is part three with Peter Murphy Lewis, host of LTC Heroes, which is long term care heroes. And um, in this particular segment, uh, he's, we're going to be learning what metrics are good to focus on for podcast ROI, how to distribute content strategically, and how to use your podcast to build long term relationships.

Dun, dun,

Matt Edmundson: dun, dun, dun. That's all I'm going to do because frankly, I'm very out of tune. So. Yeah, what's going to happen is we're going to play the clip. If you're new to the show, by the way, a very warm welcome to you. I stumbled over that line, didn't I? But what's going to happen is we're going to play this clip.

And then I'm going to take copious amounts of notes. You are too, in green pen, by the looks of things. Yeah, I think

Sadaf Beynon: I've got options.

Matt Edmundson: You've got one of those multicoloured pens, straight out of the 80s, though. Yeah. Got one of them, but you've not got one of the eight at all. Bill and Ted. Anyway, uh, we're going to watch this clip and then, uh, Sadaf and [00:03:00] I will be back to talk about the clip and what we've learned from it after the clip.

So make sure you stay with us for Conversation Street, but without further ado, here is the legendary Peter Murphy Lewis.

Sadaf Beynon: What kind of metrics do you look at to, um, to see the growth of your podcast? Not just in terms of audience, but actually the bottom line.

Peter Murphy Lewis: Yeah, I, I get that question a lot from. People who are thinking about doing their podcast or when I have, um, ref referrals, reach out to me and you know, they say, Hey, I'm thinking about doing a podcast.

I heard about you. What should I do? I'm worried about, you know, throwing a hundred thousand dollars at a podcast this year, not seeing any return on the investment. I tend to see podcasts as, you know, That's kind of three main metrics that I'm going to look at. Probably the first most [00:04:00] important is pipeline, right?

Like Chris Walker, who's, who's a big marketer in our space and a big proponent of podcasts is make sure that your lead magnet form or your contact form in your side of your HubSpot on your website does not make people answer a question. Pre template, rather, let them ask how they first heard about you, and then when you talk to them, when your SDR talks to them, or your discovery call, say, what is it that made you finally reach out to us, like what, what is the last impression that made them, and I think that if you run a successful podcast for six months, maybe nine months, and by successful I mean you do it every single week, You follow the steps that you guys teach on this podcast.

You follow some of the ideas that I shared here for growth hacking across other channels, you should start to see people trickle into your pipeline who say that I've either first heard about you on a podcast, or I [00:05:00] booked a call because I heard you on the podcast. So either it's bringing people in or it's bringing people to a call.

Um, and then the second metric that I think that you could pay attention to after about. 12 months of running a podcast is your sales cycle should be shorter. So what I did with, with a preview with a client was I would take clips of their podcast interviews mm-Hmm, , and push it out to everyone who hit the pipeline.

So as soon as you move from an MQL to an SQL, and then you now have, you're in the pipeline for a 25, 000 deal or a 250, 000 deal, I'm going to remarket case studies to you and podcast interviews to you until you close. And that should shorten the sales cycle. So instead of my average sales cycle of being two months for an enterprise SaaS.

Uh, product, uh, I want, I want to get down to six weeks to four weeks and I am certain a podcast can [00:06:00] do that. I saw it. I did it. So those two things are the two metrics that we do with our podcasts and with our third and our clients. And lastly, and this isn't near, this isn't quite as quantitative as you were asking, but I think that you should be able to see some type of, some type of conclusive metrics around brand awareness.

So you should either see your YouTube channel grow in subscribers. When you're pushing out as a LinkedIn newsletter, LinkedIn will give you the metrics of who are the people who are reading your newsletter. It'll tell you what their job role is. So in my newsletter, uh, I look for about 15 percent of the people who should be reading my newsletters are CEOs.

So those are decision makers. Another 15 to 30 percent should be C suite executives. So just underneath that CEO and that's good metrics. Those are good metrics for me. And then you can see every single person who subscribes, right? So I launched a LinkedIn [00:07:00] newsletter, uh, a month ago that is repurposing our podcast content and our blog content.

And we hit a million subscribers. You know, 1, 200 LinkedIn subscribers within one month, and the majority of those are CEOs and C suites. So, that might not show up into the previous metrics I mentioned, which is pipeline or even sales cycle for quite some time, but there are enough indications that it's headed in the right direction.

Like, if a client comes to you and says, Hey, uh, uh, uh, brand awareness, that's Too vague for me. Well, I mean then like when you go to a convention and you speak to 15 people at, at the happy hour, don't count that as good marketing either then. Okay. Because you know what it is , right? It's it, it's not in your pipeline, but you just met 15 people who recognize who you are and you know what their pain point are and you know what they think about, and you know what next, the next convention they're going to.

Sadaf Beynon: That's such a great point. How often do you send newsletters out? [00:08:00] Is that a monthly thing or a weekly? We're

Peter Murphy Lewis: doing it, uh, we have two, the client I'm working with right now is in the investment space and we are on two sides of the marketplace. So we need portfolio managers and we need investors and we're in the private equity space.

And so we run two newsletters. Twice per month, two, two per month for investors where we are showing them the digital assets that we are acquiring and investing in and why we are buying them at lower multiples and how we can make them efficient and have a positive outcome, um, on when we exit. And then on the other side of the marketplace, it's operators.

Which are portfolio managers. Those are people who are going to manage our assets when we acquire them. And we're doing a newsletter around events and conventions that they should be going to. Uh, and we're doing that twice a month. And both of those, both those newsletters started a month ago and both of those hit more than a thousand subscribers in the first [00:09:00] month.

Sadaf Beynon: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson: Welcome back to The Conversation Street with myself and the beautiful set, talking about what Peters has talked about. That makes sense, right? It

Sadaf Beynon: does.

Matt Edmundson: I need to practice my intro to this segment. You know, like you've

Sadaf Beynon: practiced your .

Matt Edmundson: This is a podcast for podcasters who podcast to do what? What's the, what do you say, podcasters to grow the podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Podcasters who use their podcast to grow their business.

Matt Edmundson: Podcasters who use their podcast, use their podcast to grow their business, which is great. So I need like, this is a Conversation Street for the podcasters who use their podcast to grow their business, just like we do.

Sadaf Beynon: Except it's not Conversation Street.

Matt Edmundson: Is it not? What, what do we call it?

Sadaf Beynon: We don't call it anything. Anything. We're not

Matt Edmundson: The chat bit.

Sadaf Beynon: The chat [00:10:00] bit. .

Matt Edmundson: The talky bit. Uh, I, we should probably come up with a name. Okay.

Sadaf Beynon: If you have any ideas, let us know. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Send 'em in. We'd love to hear. What, what should we call this segment? Mm. Uh, and we'd love to hear from you if you let us know and we pick your answer.

I'll give you a year's supply of free vitamins.

Sadaf Beynon: I thought you were going to say ice cream.

Matt Edmundson: Or ice cream. But we'll go with vitamins. We've got a vitamin company, so it's easy. Vitamins if you're from, you know, the other side of the pond. Um, but yes, there's some really nice vitamins actually. But that, that aside.

This segment we talk about the bits that Peter talks about what he talks about. I remember we said last week that he talked about things I've not heard other people talk about and he's done it again

Sadaf Beynon: this

Matt Edmundson: week. He's knocked it out of the ballpark. And I think the, the metrics that he is using. So is pipeline.

Mm-Hmm. , uh, the shorter sales sales cycle. Mm-Hmm. . [00:11:00] And the brand awareness. I thought, well, genius.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Absolute genius. And I think pipeline to be fair. Pipeline. I thought of before. I, I thought yes, actually that, you know, what is our pipeline doing? Um, and we can get into that. But this shorter sales cycle, never even thought of that.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I thought that was really clever. And how we. How he's shortening the sales cycle, get my words right, how he's shortening the sales cycle by using or repurposing content from the podcast by sending it out with case studies to prospective clients to shorten that sales cycle.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: That's good.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was really, really good.

Sadaf Beynon: I also like how he put the timeframes with it. So it's not like something that will eventually happen. It's something you can actually really work towards. So for the first six to nine months. He said if we're doing things consistently, like consistently posting using the growth hacking ideas he gave in the last episode, um, you know, we should, we should [00:12:00] see our pipeline being built up.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Shorter sales cycles. I really liked that. And I think that's a really, really interesting point. And I think six to nine months in, you will definitely have content that you can send out to prospective clients from your podcast. And so I think this will be a really helpful episode specifically for you.

If you're using your podcast to grow your business. Yeah. Right. For podcasters who use podcasting to grow their business. Did I get that right?

Yeah, you did Check

Matt Edmundson: it out, . So I think, um, it's a really valid point and I think, I don't know if I've done that.

Mm-Hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And this is why I love Peter, because it's challenging me to think slightly differently.

Yeah. And I'm like, actually this is a really solid point. I have sent links to podcasts in the past when I thought they would help people. Mm-Hmm. . So when people have asked me certain questions in the past, I've gone, actually, I think you'll find this episode really helpful. And so I've sent that link out.

What I've not done is [00:13:00] been intentional when it comes to shortening sales cycles, as in actively sending content to prospective clients. So in order for them to get through the process quicker, to get their questions answered quicker and being proactive in that and thinking that through. That's a bit I think is really clever.

Yeah. How do we do that?

Sadaf Beynon: How do we do that? I think, well, part of it is what Peter and you've just said as well now, that once we, as we're building up content. In the first six to nine months, we're creating those pieces that are part of the puzzle for a prospective client, client, and they can understand the picture a bit more before they even have that conversation.

Do you remember, um, when we had Egan on and there was a segment where he talked about someone who came and sat with him, they went They went met up somewhere for [00:14:00] coffee or something. And before he even like got started, he said, you know, I've listened to all your episodes. I know what this is about. I want to sign up.

It's kind of that, isn't it? That's shortening the, the sales cycle because you're already out there. You're already creating content, answering people's questions before they've signed up.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's really cool. I think it's something we can, we can think about actually for like, for PodJunction.

So if you don't know, ladies and gentlemen, PodJunction is a, is, well, it's both a podcast and it's a company. Um, and PodJunction offers podcasting services to similar people that Peter's trying to reach really. The CEOs, business leaders, people that want to set up a podcast, but don't know how to do it, just want some help to get started.

We want their team training on the right protocols and all that sort of stuff. Well, that's what PodJunction does, right? And, um, we sort of get people from episode zero to episode 20, and then we kind of figure out where we need to go from there, because if you get to [00:15:00] episode 20, you've beaten 98 percent of people.

Yeah. Um, you've got your six months content. You've got all that sort of stuff, which you can go with. So we have that as a service, right? And we have two podcasts, which helps service that company. We have this one, although this one is a little bit different, isn't it? Because this one's aimed at people who are already podcasters.

Um, this is us making connections, building a network, getting a name in the industry, learning. I mean, just stuff like this is gold. So much.

Yeah. Stuff like this

Matt Edmundson: can go in our sales documentation, you know, about shorten your sales pipeline with podcasts. Um, you'll see that in there soon, Peter, I'm sure. Um, so that's, you know, and then the other one, Push To Be More is where we strategically target, you Potential clients, right?

Where we go, right, who could potentially be a client for us? Let's go invite them onto a podcast, give them a great experience and show them how this could work for them. Um, and so that's what we use PodJunction for, uh, sorry, Push for. So we, we do have a company, we do have services that [00:16:00] we sell. And so I guess the question then becomes.

If I was to take a step back and look at that and go, right, thinking through the sales cycle, what episodes would really help people move quickly through that? Or do we need to take certain segments from different episodes and put them together? Like, what are the benefits of me using a podcast to grow my own business?

We could take like 20 clips, you know, from various people, including the ones actually we've just had from, um, from Peter. We could take those clips and we could say, right, here's what you do.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, or here's what, here's how it's going to work. And you can listen to those people. The other thing that we have done that I don't think we've used yet in our, for some reason, um, in our sales process are the reviews that we get from guests.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, we have not, we've not been very good with those.

Matt Edmundson: We've been good at collecting them.

Sadaf Beynon: Good at collecting them, but not really utilizing them to their full potential, I don't think.

Matt Edmundson: So do you want to tell the good ladies and gentlemen [00:17:00] what we do now?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So, um, part of our process with, um, our guests for our different podcasts is we have, um, emails that, that we send out and part in, in one of those emails, there'll be, we'll invite them to give us a review on, um, something called testimonial.

That's the website isn't it, testimonial.

Matt Edmundson: io or something like that, yeah, I can't remember.

Sadaf Beynon: And they can either send in a text review or a video, they can video themselves and then we get that, we can, we can actually put it out on um, platforms like LinkedIn and um, social media. We can put it on our website.

We can, um, what else can we do? Probably put it in our newsletter, things like that. And, um, at the moment we, we have, we have a huge database now of all these really great reviews and we're slowly starting to get them out on our websites. But as I was saying, we, I think we could do so much more with them.

I think as we were talking last week too, about, or [00:18:00] last episode rather, um, about using LinkedIn more, being more strategic with that. So, I think there's a lot more scope.

Matt Edmundson: There is and actually the way it works with getting the testimonials from clients is we send them this email, which is an automated email, but actually at the end of it, I don't know how you do it actually, but at the end of every interview, I say to the guest, listen, you're going to get two emails from me.

You can do with them what you will because I don't want them to feel under any obligation or pressure. Um, now normally at this point, right, the guest has had a really good experience. And I've said to them, how was that for you, man? How did you, did you enjoy that? How did you get, you were great on the show.

Just want to check in. How was that for you? And they're like, oh man, I had a great time. This was awesome. You're such a great interviewer. You're such a great host. Um, I quite often hear people say it's the best podcast I've ever been on. You're the best host I've ever had. And I think it's very kind of people to say that, but I think they must say it to everybody.

I'm not sure.

Matt Edmundson: Maybe, I don't know, maybe I am just singly the best podcast host. I think you are

really good actually, [00:19:00] actually.

Matt Edmundson: That's a strike, Matt, so you go real quick. Um, but at that point, it's at that point I say to them, listen, that's brilliant. You're going to get a couple of emails from me, do with them what you will.

One of them is going to ask you to leave a review. What was it like being a guest on this show? We would love to get your comments. We would love to get your feedback on that just so we can share it. With people who are thinking about becoming a guest on the show, and they're like, oh man, I would love to do that.

Mm. And so when I've told people that that email's coming, our referral rate went up. Did you notice that? Yeah.

Yeah. So

Matt Edmundson: originally we just sent the email out.

Mm-Hmm. .

Matt Edmundson: Um, and by the time they've read the email or thought about, they've forgotten about the experience. 'cause I tell 'em about the email right at that point where they're ecstatic about being on the show.

You get a high memorable rate. And so the amount of people that then leave the review straight away is really quite high.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I think also it's their way of giving back, isn't it? They've had a great experience. We're not asking for money. We're not asking for anything like [00:20:00] that. But for them to turn around and be able to give a great review is something they can do.

Matt Edmundson: And we ask them again, don't we? Once the episode is live. So if they haven't given a review, we ask them again, when the episode is live with the social media clips. And again, we get a high number of people saying, Oh, I'd love to leave a review and Testimonial, that software platform, we should really leave a link to it on our website because I think we've got an affiliate link.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, we do.

Matt Edmundson: We do. So if you're going to use it, if you're going to sign up to it, use our affiliate link because it will mean we'll get a cup of coffee, which is important. And more ice cream, I feel. Uh, so, but yeah, I think Testimonial makes it really easy to record or to write a review. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and so we've got quite a few of them now, so I just think we've done really well at collecting them, uh, but it would be really good now to actually start using them, um, again, with, again, all about shortening that sales cycle, isn't it? Yeah,

yeah. [00:21:00]

Matt Edmundson: Uh, whether that's the sales, in fact, I, I think that, uh, you've got the sales cycle for clients, um, obviously that bring money in, but also then there's a cycle that you go through to get guests on the show.

And I think if you're strategically targeting, like if with Push, we go after certain people, I think we would get more people saying yes quicker, if we use testimonials in that somehow, like, you know, go to this page and find out more about what it's like to be a guest on the show. And actually talking directly to that, I think would be a really interesting idea.

We should definitely do that. Welcome to a brainstorming session, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, this is normally how it works.

It is exactly how it works.

Matt Edmundson: We just have a thought and then we just go down a little rabbit hole. And you just nod at me like whatever.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Pretending to make notes.

So what else did we pick [00:22:00] up today from young Peter? Got his metrics. He talked about his newsletter. He only does it twice a month, which I thought was interesting, rather than once a week.

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: that is interesting. It'd be an interesting thing to test what has the most impact. Is his show weekly?

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, I believe so.

So he

Matt Edmundson: has a weekly podcast, but a bi weekly newsletter. I appreciate bi weekly. Some people understand that as twice per week or every other week. I'm using it in the context of every other week. Fortnite.

Sadaf Beynon: Every fortnight.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, once a fortnight. What

Sadaf Beynon: was I going to write down?

Matt Edmundson: I have no idea. What

Sadaf Beynon: was your second great idea that we were just talking about?

Matt Edmundson: Oh, using the testimonials with guests. Thank you. Having like, what's it like to be a guest on the podcast kind of page would be really good. And people could apply directly on that page and then using some of the testimonials just to explain what the journey is like. [00:23:00] Especially if we're going after people that have never been on the podcast before.

Yeah. And you can even put a little note on there saying, we do not accept sales people. So if you're coming on to our show just to sell your stuff, thank you, but we're really not interested in a really polite way, but if you're on our show to deliver great value to the guests, we'd love to hear from

you.

Matt Edmundson: And given, actually, I'm thinking, I'm just off on one now. Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, just to get this. Get

comfortable. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Here we go. I've been here before. Um, I'm thinking about eCommerce Podcast, which is one of our other podcasts that we have. We are now adding this third pillar of content, right? Well, actually the second pillar of content, which is EP founders.

And so I've started to reach out to people on LinkedIn. It would be great on EP have a podcast page, which says, what's it like to be a guest on our show? Because a lot of those founders will not have been on a podcast before. Do you see what I mean? Whereas all the experts have been on thousands of podcasts.[00:24:00]

They, they, they sort of go around, they know what they're doing. So we've never really needed this page before. But with new guests, what's it like to be a guest on the podcast? I think would be a really good, a really good page to have. There you go. Brainwave just for that. Thanks, Peter.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, this was a great conversation.

Sparks a lot of great ideas as you can all tell.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, this is what I like. This is why I like doing Conversation Street, slash whatever we're going to call it here, we have one to three years supply of vitamins, vitamins, vitamins, the chat bit,

the chat bit.

Matt Edmundson: I like it because we're trying to think about how we can use it ourselves.

So I hope you like how our brain works. You might all be screaming at the computer or your podcast player going, Matt, don't be a plonker, you don't want to do that because of X, Y In which case, write in and let me know before we do it. Let me know quick, that would be greatly appreciated. Uh, what's coming up next week?

Sadaf Beynon: Um, Peter Murphy Lewis. [00:25:00]

Matt Edmundson: Again. Again. Part.

Sadaf Beynon: Part four.

Matt Edmundson: And next week we'll be talking about?

Sadaf Beynon: Stuff.

So you'll have to tune in.

Matt Edmundson: That's where proper planning and preparation, uh, has not occurred.

Oh, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. If you're a regular to the show, you will know that this is not the first time I've asked Sadaf what's happening next week and she's just gone stuff. We're going to be having really

Sadaf Beynon: great stuff. Don't be confused. We're having a

Matt Edmundson: conversation about

Sadaf Beynon: Podcasting with Peter.

So, you know, it's going to be great.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no doubt deliver some great value again. So make sure you subscribe to the show because obviously we want you to hear part four, whatever part four is going to end. I want to hear part four, uh, whatever it's going to entail for us. So do come and join us for that.

So. Yeah, make sure, like I say, you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from, uh, or if you're [00:26:00] watching this on YouTube, you know, it's great to see you on there as well. Uh, do like, subscribe, comment, high five and all that sort of good stuff. Be great to connect with you. Reach out to us as well. You can find me at Matt Edmundson, uh, on LinkedIn or you, are you at Sadaf Beynon?

Yeah. At

Matt Edmundson: Sadaf Beynon on LinkedIn. Beynon. Beynon. Yes. Beynon.

Sadaf Beynon: Beynon.

Matt Edmundson: Beynon.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Is that important?

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Brilliant. Uh, so yeah, come and, uh, uh, say hi on LinkedIn. Always great to hear from people that listen to the show. I'd love to know what you think about it. Um, just had someone from Australia, uh, contact me this week. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's great. Catching up. Matt, I've listened to your show for two years. And they're just reaching out.

Sadaf Beynon: Which show was that?

Matt Edmundson: EP.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So. Excellent. Yeah. It's always nice to hear from, from fellow folks around the world. So do come and say, how's it? Uh, but yeah. Anything else from you? Nope. [00:27:00] That's it from me. Ladies and gentlemen, you have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time and you'll see them next time.

Sadaf Beynon: I will. All right.

Matt Edmundson: Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com where you'll find more information about how you can join Podjunction Cohort.

Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us know. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy [00:28:00] podcasting.