In-Depth with Steven Pemberton: Leveraging Story-Based Podcasting | Steven Pemberton

Sadaf Beynon [0:06 - 0:32]: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast, a show for podcasters who want to use their podcast to grow their business. I'm your host, Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm joined by Steven Pemberton, an entrepreneur and a podcasting pro. He's been on over 100 shows and loves to share his journey from corporate life to podcast success. Stay tuned to learn his strategies for leveraging podcasts for business growth, engaging audiences, and podcast marketing. Steven, welcome to the show.

Steven Pemberton [0:32 - 0:34]: Sadaf, thank you so much for having me.

Sadaf Beynon [0:34 - 0:41]: Oh, it's our pleasure. It's our pleasure. So, Steven, let's start off with your podcasting journey. How did you first get into it?

Steven Pemberton [0:41 - 1:51]: So the way that I first got into it was a little over or going on almost two years. There was somebody who is really important in my life, especially now, and they spoke over me. It's like, hey, you're gonna be a voice like a lion to this generation. So I thought, oh, that's really cool. Maybe I'll do something with that. I thought, you know, that would be an interesting name for a podcast. And so about six months later, after receiving that, I decided that I was going to start a podcast. That's why there's a line behind me. That's why the name of the show is Voice Like a Lion. And when I started the show, it was just so funny, because when I started, it was just supposed to be a video journal. It was just me talking to me, and it was me being able to process. It was almost like a private form of therapy, if I'm honest, because I was just going. It's like, hey, today was amazing. And here's the things that I went through, and these are the people that I talked to, and this is what I learned from the people that I talked to. And it wasn't even supposed to go out. Like, I have so many episodes recorded that I haven't even released because it was just me talking to me. And in the beginning, there was nobody listening to that thing. I would have one listener every now and then, and that was my mom, and that would only be if I sent it to her.

Sadaf Beynon [1:51 - 1:58]: I love that. So how has your podcast evolved then, since you first started?

Steven Pemberton [1:58 - 2:59]: Well, in the beginning, like I said, I wanted it to be a video journal. Just kind of going over more of the personal aspects of my life and the people I was interacting with, but not so much of the business side. And what I realized was I couldn't really separate the two. I mean, that's the way that I approach business. If when people work with me in business, they get all of me. You're not just getting the one side of me. So what ends up happening is I start reading books, and I actually have somebody that I got introduced to, and he was coming out with a book. And so when he was coming out with a book, I. He sent me a copy early, about two months early. I read it. Most incredible book I read in 2023. So I said, hey, would you be willing to come on my show? And I was like, I got this podcast. Would you be willing to come on it? And he said, sure, absolutely. So before he comes on, I have somebody reach out to me on LinkedIn and says, Hey, I saw that you added podcast host, which. That is a secret tip. If you want to grow your followers on LinkedIn, just put podcast host. You'll have a hundred thousand people that want to connect with you to help you boost your podcast ratings. But amazing.

Sadaf Beynon [3:00 - 3:03]: Great tip. I'm writing that one down.

Steven Pemberton [3:03 - 4:36]: But with the person who reached out to me, he said, hey, this is who I am. I've been on a zillion different podcasts. I would love to come on your show. So I said, okay, great. I'll have this person on my podcast first, and then I'll have this other author that I really enjoyed his book. I have him come on. And I can tell you that if there was ever an episode that makes you want to quit, it was that very first episode for me. That guest, I mean, he was the. He was the meanest guest I had ever encountered. Not. I mean, I've been an entrepreneur for going on five years. I've talked to so many people, and this guy was just the meanest guy. And I went, really? This is my first. This is my first guesting experience where he's coming on my show on my first hosting experience. And it's like he was just ripping me apart and that. But what was so fascinating was after the show ended, because it's supposed to be. Usually I go about 30 minutes to an hour, just depends on how the flow goes. And it was really fascinating. That show lasted 15 minutes. And when that show was over, he was just like, wow, that was amazing. You did a great job. I was like, that whole time you were yelling at me, getting upset at me for every question I asked. It's like, but somehow I did amazing. It's like, okay, great. And. But that's my thing. For anyone who is. If you're newer in podcasting and you're having those experiences where you're a host and it Just doesn't feel like it's clicking. You're missing steps. You don't feel like that you can get it all together. It's fine. This. Keep going. I promise you that it'll be okay. The people who are guests are not really going to care. They're just excited to be there.

Sadaf Beynon [4:36 - 5:03]: That's cool. I like what you're saying. And actually thinking about what you said earlier about how you started the podcast. You had all that time when you were just speaking into the camera, you know, just creating content just for yourself. You had a lot of practice, and I guess that's what a lot of people would start doing when they're first starting their podcasting journey. Right? Like, with a guest. I mean, that's cool.

Steven Pemberton [5:03 - 6:35]: Even with that, here's my take on that as well. Is like, I was a guest on tons of shows before I ever became a host, so you would think, oh, there's going to be major carryover into being a host. I would tell you that's not true. And the reason why I would say that's not true is because when you're used to being the one getting asked the questions, you're not having to formulate the questions. And it's the same way even in business, where in business, if you're not the one, if you're doing sales calls, you have to be the best one on the call asking questions. So the power of your question dictates the power of your answer. So if you want to get amazing content for your podcast, ask a really good question. And for me, what I found is if you do a little bit of research beforehand to figure out who they are, what they've done, maybe something they don't really talk about very often, instead of just getting the story of their. Because everyone wants to get the backstory, which is great, but when you're listening to the backstory, I had this gentleman on who he was a big, big motivational speaker, and then he got convicted of murder. And so, and the story is. And I'm sitting there, it's like, wow, as I'm listening, but I've already done my research. So what I did was, instead of asking him, it's like, okay, what was it like when you were at the peak and you're making all your money? Or what was it like when you were, like, coming out of jails? My question was, is, what was your initial thoughts when you got convicted? I wanted to ask a deeper question because I wanted to understand, what is he feeling? Because if you can draw emotions out of your guest. That is the same kind of emotions that the listener is going to pick up on.

Sadaf Beynon [6:35 - 6:47]: Yeah, yeah. Listening to you say that, it seems like you place a strong emphasis on the why behind your guest journeys. And like, so you, you know the importance of storytelling.

Steven Pemberton [6:47 - 6:48]: Yes.

Sadaf Beynon [6:48 - 6:52]: So why do you think that is so powerful in podcasting?

Steven Pemberton [6:52 - 9:27]: Because it's the same as just having good friendships. Like, you don't if you were hanging out with your friends and all they did was give you basically the analytical rundown of their week. Well, this week I woke up at 6am and then I did three phone calls. It's like, oh, this is boring. But if you hear a story of why, of why they did those things, they hear the story of, hey, I was. I've been up at 6am every single day. I've been hitting the phones at 6:30 in the morning every single day because I'm excited to go on this trip. And I know that if I don't get this amount of work done, I'm not going to be able to take the trip where I've been planning this for the last five years and yada, yada, yada. But you want to understand the story, the heart behind why they decided to do those things. And just asking that simple question. I mean, as kids, if for me, I have a son, he asks this question all the time, but he will ask why? And the. And just asking that one question, when people sit there and they start telling you, it's like, you know, I did this and I did this and I did this and these are the things that work for me is just asking why. Like, for some people, there's even in business and podcasting, they will have rapid acceleration. And to them, that seems normal. But to other people who haven't had the same rapid acceleration, asking the question why or the question, it's like, why? Why do you think that you had that massive acceleration in your business? Oh, then they have to actually investigate instead of it just like magically happened overnight. They got to go back 10 years and say, well, I did this and this and this and this. And I remember when I was sleeping on the couch and I was working 21 hours a day, and these are the things that I had to go through. It's like, now you're getting to distill down stories and stories. Even in business, stories sell more than anything else. So if you can have a powerful story and even for my people listening, where, if you're looking at corporate jobs, I used to be a manager in corporate for a long time is having powerful stories. If somebody asks you, hey, give me an example of a time where you had to reprimand somebody for something that they did instead of you saying, well, this one time I talked to Jim and I told Jim that he did that bad is have a really powerful story of. Jim was on this forklift and he almost ran somebody over. And I noticed it. And instead of me just going straight to the supervisor, I went to Jim and I said, hey, Jim, I saw that you were on your cell phone. And with you being on your cell phone, you almost hit Gary. And Gary's got two. Got a wife and two kids. And I just want to let you know that if you hit Gary, it's like, then we're all set back. But you just having a story for those situations is going to sell you more. And this is the same thing with your guests. If you can get them to. If you can draw out more details on the story. That's where the beauty really happens in podcasting.

Sadaf Beynon [9:28 - 9:39]: So do you have then a lot of. Actually, let me rephrase this. So you've got. Your podcast has ecommerce guests on it, right? You have entrepreneurs.

Steven Pemberton [9:40 - 11:54]: So I just have a bunch of entrepreneurs. It started off where I was going to niche it down into the ecommerce space because that's a lot of my backstory is a lot of mine and my wife's backstory, especially in business. But what ended up happening, it was actually really, really cool because I've just been doing networking for such a long time. I have a pretty powerful network that I had people reaching out to me, like, hey, Steven, I know this guy. One great example that someone I never would have been introduced to and it definitely would not have fit into the ecommerce side was the gentleman who helped Kobe Bryant write his last book. So this is someone where I never would have gotten, like, if I would have stayed niche down, I would have missed that opportunity. And he was an amazing guy. And I got a signed copy. So that. But those things. And that's what happened. And this is where if you're someone who's newer in podcasting is just network with people, just meet people, be nice to people. And because you don't know, a, you don't know who they are, B, you don't know who they know. So by networking and just. And again, just engaging in stories, learning about who they are, they can learn about who you are. Then you can understand, especially in the beginning, that you don't, don't. You don't always have to shoot for the people with a million followers. To try to grow your podcast, you can focus on people who. Maybe they're smaller in the beginning. You're learning how to host, bringing those people on so you can get comfortable finding your voice and helping them find their voice. Those are going to be the people who are going to be willing to push it in the beginning as well. It's like, it doesn't matter if they're your first show. They're going to be willing to put it on their Instagram, put it on their LinkedIn, put it on YouTube, whatever it is. But those are the people that I found, especially in the beginning, really helped me because they had their voice in a different area and they helped me not. They helped me feel comfortable when I'm trying to figure out how to ask questions. Because it seems so easy. It's like, just ask a question. But when you're listening to someone's story, you're like, do I ask a question about that part or about this part? And those are the. And there's no wrong answer. Like, that's. The thing is you're not going to get it wrong. If you ask a question and you feel like they give you a very surface level answer, ask another question. You can. And the thing is, you can be 10, 15 minutes past when they told the story. If you remember something from the beginning, just ask them a question. Hey, I remember you said this earlier in the show. Can you go a little bit deeper on that?

Sadaf Beynon [11:54 - 12:04]: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. So on your podcast, you've got entrepreneurs telling their story. You do you go quite deep with them. Is it quite personal?

Steven Pemberton [12:05 - 13:02]: Yeah, because again, the same thing I was saying a little bit earlier was I wanted to be personal. There was one gentleman, he was on my show and he. He just basically was a. An exposition for him because he just spoke for basically the whole 30 minutes. And what was interesting was it would be an amazing speech if he would have showed up at. If I would have showed up to a conference and he was on the stage. Amazing. Podcasting wise, I didn't really enjoy it, so it took me a much longer time to release that one because I was like, I was battling with. Does this actually resonate with people? Yeah, because it wasn't a conversation. More than anything else, I want people to feel like that they're sitting at a table with me and my guest where they feel like it's like, oh, that's a question I would have asked. Oh, wow. Yeah, he actually asked a really deep question. Oh, wow, that's an amazing answer. Instead of it feeling like you're sitting at a table and you've got the one friend who just won't stop talking, I want it to be more where it seems as if you're right there and you're involved with it as well.

Sadaf Beynon [13:02 - 13:31]: Yeah. So I think storytelling is great. And I'm just thinking, like, from your perspective as a host, when you're hosting guests that are telling their stories, and I think that's essential. But then what about the advice part? Like the practical advice on how to do ecommerce or how they might run their business or start the business? How do you balance the two of those aspects to keep your audience engaged and informed?

Steven Pemberton [13:32 - 15:34]: That's a great question. So as I'm having them go through their stories. So let's say I'm talking to an entrepreneur that. Real examples. I had a gentleman on, and he's. He's the biggest logistics company in Mexico, so massive company. But the thing is, most people cannot relate with massive. Most people can relate with beginning. So I'm asking him, I'm hearing his story, and it's like, okay, take me to the beginning. Okay, this is how you started. You're working all these hours. It's like, if you had to start again. So this is where I get it more practical with people. It's like, okay, if you had to restart, what would be the things today that you would either do the same or do differently? Because times have changed. You're over a decade into this thing. You're actually. It's 20 years since, like, you're over two decades in. What would you do today? Times have changed. Technology has changed. And then he's like, well, these. These are things I would focus on. So the way that I try to balance it is I love to get the stories, and then I want to tie the stories into a practical. So you're telling me that you're. That you had to go through depression and you felt like a failure, and these are the things you walk through. It's like, what do you think would have helped you in that moment? So let's just say that there's somebody listening to this podcast, and they're in the same exact spot that you were in 20 years ago. What advice would you give them to help them take their next step? Well, I would say to focus on the things in life that are good. Okay, great. If there's somebody in their business and they can't seem to make a sale, no matter who they talk to, they can't sell anything. They can't sell eyes to somebody in the middle of the desert. It's like, well, here's what I would focus on is figure out are you focused on you more than you're focused on the person on the other side of the line? If you realize that you're only focused about you and your and the intent is not good. Some steps that I would take is do a gratitude journal. The next thing that I would do is I would actually go maybe get a sales course or I go watch somebody who's great at sales and just learn how they ask deeper questions. But for me is I always want to take the story because again, the story will sell more than anything else. Taking the story but tying it to practical steps. Because for me, I don't just want you to be basically listening to an audiobook. I want you to be able to walk away and at least say, well, I can try to implement one thing that was on the show.

Sadaf Beynon [15:35 - 15:57]: Yeah, that's cool. Steven, it's been really fascinating to listen to how your podcast has evolved and also the importance of storytelling in your episodes as well. I think it's very cool. I am definitely going to be listening to more of your episodes. Can we shift gears a little bit and talk maybe about how you've leveraged your podcast to grow your business?

Steven Pemberton [15:57 - 15:58]: Yes.

Sadaf Beynon [15:58 - 15:58]: Yeah.

Steven Pemberton [15:58 - 19:22]: This is something right from the get go, right from the beginning that I've done. And what's interesting because of being on a guest on so many shows is I was a guest on shows that had well over 200 episodes. I was a guest on a show that had over a thousand episodes. That's a lot of time. And I remember when I first started out, I mean, I was not very many episodes in maybe five or six, and I'd already gotten a client out of it. And I had a. I have a friend that he was well over 200 episodes, shut down his podcast because he had never gotten anything out of it. And the biggest difference I noticed between me and people that I've guessed on their podcast is I just take a little extra time afterwards. And a lot of times when people that are hosts after a show, they'll just sit there and say, hey, Steven, thank you so much. It was amazing. You did great. Here's next step. So next steps is in two weeks, your show will be coming out on this day. We're going to send you all the material through email. If you wouldn't mind, just promote it. If you wouldn't mind, just put it up on instagram here's some posts. And it's like, okay, that's great. You're giving me the logistics of what's next. And then it's like, okay, see you later. But you didn't actually discover, is there anything that we could do together? I have been sitting with you for an hour. You have built trust with me, I've built trust with you so you can discover. It's like, hey, Steven, I know you said you're in ecommerce. I heard your story is great. It's. I'm actually starting my store or actually have my store. Is there a way for us to work together? And if we were to work together, what would that look like? And because now you're having a candid conversation, there's not a sales mechanism happening. And if you're trying to get clients, if you're like, hey, Steven, I heard that you are doing B2B ecommerce. I actually have been doing for the last 10 years, I actually have been working with companies just like yours to get appointments set. And I heard that that was one of the areas that you were kind of struggling in. Do you think maybe we could talk about a way for us to do that together? And it's like, okay, at least I'm interested because I'm there. Like, I trust you more than some random person who reached out to me on LinkedIn. You've built trust with me. So for me is that's what I do after every. I just want to discover who I've taken time to hear about you, your business. At the end of my show, I'm always asking, it's like, what is one thing that you're overcoming in your life or your business right now? So I already know a struggle. And then for me is it's not about making a sale for me at the end of my show afterwards, it's okay, so you're struggling with your mental health. I know this great person. This is someone you need to talk to or I know this great book. My ideals is I want to make sure to help them solve their problem, not I want to get them to give me money. But I have found that doing it that way is the best way for you to be able to get clients, to be able to get more business for you to get a stronger network, for you to have people that you can lean on. You got to realize as if you're. Especially if you're going to do this for a longer term than the next 90 days when you're having all these guests on is you want to build that network. So if you take a little bit of time afterwards pouring into them, you've already learned some of their. Their woes, you can help solve that. If you can solve that and your business can solve that, it's like, hey, I hear this. I hear that you're. You're saying that this is one of the biggest issues you're walking through. This is actually something that we do, and I know that we do it well. And then they're willing to discuss. So for me, with that, those were the areas that I've just seen grow my network. It's grown my business, and it's been really fun to do it in that way.

Sadaf Beynon [19:22 - 19:41]: That's really interesting. So do you then research your guests in a particular way when you've got this thought in the back of your head that you're going to ask them, how can we do business together? Or how can we work together? Or, you know, that kind of thing? When you're researching your guests, do you have that. Are you thinking about those kinds of things?

Steven Pemberton [19:41 - 22:11]: No. So, no, I'll be, I'll be candid. There is, I have a buddy that he does the podcasting thing on a large scale where he. But for him is, what he does is he helps other people set up their podcast. And it is very much a sales funnel, where from the calendly link, you get on there and it's like, art, what is your monthly revenue marks? What did, what did you do last year? Okay, so what is your biggest problem? What is the. And this is you scheduling to be on a podcast. When I go through those, I hate those because I know that they're trying to. It's trying to be a sales thing. And then when you do get on those shows, it is like, okay, Steven, so you said that you are making $100,000 a month in revenue. So what do you think is keeping you from making $200,000 a month? Okay, so that one thing, if there was somebody who could help you solve that one thing, would you be willing to pay them? It's like, I didn't know that I'm getting interviewed live. This is going to go out like I'm getting recorded. There's a sales call recorded live that you're going to be trying to sell me. And so for me, the way that I do it now, granted, I think that there's absolutely, for me, room and room for improvement on the guest side and just doing more research to understand who they are, what their business is, what they're walking through to See, before they even get on the show, is there something that I can do to help them? But normally for me, when they get on the show is I just want it to be organic. I don't want to show up with a preconceived notion that, hey, I know that your sales suck and I can help you get better at sales. So the whole time I'm asking you questions, it's like it's rabbit holing you down into where you realize it's like, oh, man, you know, I'm not actually good at sales, or my sales are low. And then after the show, I'm telling you, it's like, hey, so I know the whole time that we talked that you were talking about how sales have just been abysmal for the last six months, but for me is, I want it to be organic, a real conversation. Because if you can have it be a real conversation, you can find what actually ails them. But people are smart. I think that we don't give people enough credit. And people can pick up on your energy. So they can tell if you are like a shark in water and they've got a little paper cut. They can tell if you feel. If they feel like that you are smelling blood and water. So with that, what I mean by that is, like, they can tell if the only thing that they. That you see them as is a transaction for me is it's all about relationship. So for me is if I can build a relationship through the call and discover what it is that they need through that podcast conversation, the afterwards conversation is so much better, especially when they don't feel like a transaction. There's people that they'll introduce me to, there's people that I'll introduce them to. And I've just seen the power of that over a long enough time horizon.

Sadaf Beynon [22:11 - 22:17]: How. How do your interactions with your guests contribute to the. To your business growth?

Steven Pemberton [22:17 - 23:37]: Yeah, so the way that they contribute to my business growth is we've gotten clients out of it. Where the way it's contributed to my business growth is actually not only gotten clients, it's actually helped grow. It's actually helped me bring on partners into the business. There's a gentleman that I met through podcasting that I got introduced to. I interviewed a guest. They introduced me to this guy, and he is now my business partner. And he brings aspects of the. To the ecommerce side, like our. To our B2B ecommerce side that I don't have. If I'm honest. This guy's been doing it for 16 years he sold a multi seven figure agency. So there's things that he's done that I haven't done. And bringing him on came through podcasting. So this is my. From everyone listening that you are a podcaster, you're looking to get into it is again, don't just look at it as transactional. If I would have looked at everyone as transactional, I would have missed the biggest blessing that's brought in significantly more money than just a one off transaction. I think that's unfortunately how a lot of people will look at things. It's like, well, I could have charged them $5,000 instead of charging them $2,000. You could, or if you charge them the $2,000, do a great job, get into the network. Now that 2000 could turn into 20,000 because of the people who are in there. But for me again is because it was not transactional, it turned into a lot more transactions.

Sadaf Beynon [23:37 - 23:42]: So what techniques do you use then to engage your audience and keep them invested in your podcast?

Steven Pemberton [23:43 - 28:53]: So great question. The way that I do that is I do that twofold. So one is through the show and the other one is of course through social media and through the show. The way that I do that is similar to what we talked about earlier is I want there to be stories, I want there to be practical steps. And then normally what I'll do on the show is once I've done those two things where I basically bridge the story to the practical step is I will say, hey, this is how you can implement this step. So I will actually be directly breaking the fourth wall and talk straight to the audience where I'm saying, okay, so if you are someone who is in this position where you are just starting out and you have not even got on a show yet, here is some steps I would take. So go sign up for this website, their accounts are free to start and then you just start messaging shows and you get on those shows. That's how I would start getting on podcasts today. And that way it gives them something practical, it gets the audience engaged. And then usually what I'll do because my audience. And this is also when you start growing your podcast is understanding who your audience is. For me, if my for my podcast, because it's usually small to medium sized businesses, but I do understand that there's also angel investors and some other people if the podcast is relevant. And what I'll do is I will say, okay, so this is for people who are newer. Here's the step. If you are newer, this is what you should do. Now, I also understand there's people on here who are listening, that you have been in business for a very long time, you've been doing podcasting for a very long time and you haven't seen the results yet. Here are some things that I would do to be able to change your podcast from just being something that takes up two to four hours of your week. It actually produces more business. It actually helps grow your social media. These are the things I would do. So what I would do. What you just heard Jim say is that Jim, he does, he does two podcast episodes a week. He promotes it on his social medias at least three to four times a week. And that has grown his podcast from being getting two downloads a month to a thousand downloads a month. So now he's in the top 20%. And just what I, what he's done is he's just done more frequency. So he's done more frequency. And in the terms of doing more frequency and podcasting, as far as recordings go and recordings released, he's also doing more frequency with social media. So of course, more things, you put out more opportunities for people to engage with you. So that's what he's done. So if you're somebody who's a little bit further down the road and you're only doing one episode a month and you want to get more downloads, do more episodes. And that's. So I try to, I try to do those two things where I will talk to the audience in terms of newer audience and in terms of people who've been around a little longer, but that's the way that I keep them engaged there on the other side is with social media is social media is. I want it to be engaging. So of course, social media, so when I put it like LinkedIn is my home when it comes to the podcast side. And what I do there is I put one up on my personal profile. It's me as the host. I think one mistake that I've seen newer podcasters make is that they immediately try to differentiate themselves from being the host where they'll host the show. But like Voice, like a line podcast has its own page, has its own Instagram, but they only promote on that stuff instead of promoting on their own page that they've probably been growing for a very long time. It's like if you, if you really mean it and you believe that this is something that you're going to do for at least a little while, it doesn't have to be forever. I'm not telling you to make a lifelong commitment. This is not marriage. What I am saying is to go, go all in, commit, commit that you're going to do it for a while until you discover this is what you really want to do. Put it on your social media. There is if you're, unless you're somebody with a giant following. If you're somebody like me that does not have a giant following, it's okay if you make mistakes. If your posts look terrible, that's the best time for them to look bad. But for me, the way I've kept my audience engaged is I'm just always honest. Like when my post is, hey, the reason why I talked about earlier where I had the gentleman who helped Kobe write his last book is I as I get excited on my posts, hey, I just interviewed this guy. He was the co host, the co author of the Mama Mentality. And in his pictures, because he's a photographer, his pictures have impacted me because I played basketball my whole life. Some of my favorite players he's photographed. This guy is the reason why I went all in on basketball. And because I'm excited now people say, oh well, if he's excited, then that's going to show up in the show. And then on the other side too is short form content. Using your long form content, which is your podcast. So you're at least usually 30 minutes to an hour and you're taking that and you're cutting that up, you're getting the best bits out of it. So there may be a question that you asked that you were like, man, I feel really great about this question. And they had a really great answer is, can you cut that up into one minute segments? Because you have that initial post that goes out that says, hey, this is the guest. This is why I'm so excited to have them. Here's a couple of things. Couple of nuggets that they gave me that changed my life. Go listen to the show and then maybe that same day. So typically I'll do it same day or I'll do it next day is then I will release a short form piece of content that is one of those nuggets. Like this is one of the nuggets that changed my life. And so that way people can get connected and they can go listen to the show.

Sadaf Beynon [28:53 - 29:04]: I want to ask you about. I've got a couple questions. So the frequency you said increase that, what do you do now?

Steven Pemberton [29:04 - 29:06]: So for me, frequency is twice a week.

Sadaf Beynon [29:07 - 29:07]: Okay.

Steven Pemberton [29:07 - 29:15]: Yep. So I'm doing one releases every Tuesday. And then normally, unless something Comes up. I do a live podcast on Fridays.

Sadaf Beynon [29:15 - 29:32]: I wanted to also ask you about the social media side of things. So you were talking about LinkedIn and using your personal profile page. What about people who might use, say, Instagram or Facebook or a different platform? Would you say the same on that as well?

Steven Pemberton [29:32 - 31:01]: Yes. Yeah. Because I have it on all of my social medias when I release something. I mean, I have a separate account for the podcast, of course, but on my personal profile, I will put it up on all my personal ones as well. Because again, here's just something I like to call through line. So it's like from the very beginning all the way to the very end. So the life cycle of your podcast episode is when you are finding these guests or if you're getting connected to that person, this should be somebody that you're willing to promote yourself. And if it's not somebody that you're willing to promote, then it's okay if you don't release an episode. Like, if you go through the episode and that's. That person is just trying to sell themselves the entire time and they're saying all the things of how they've helped people and here's the price points and here's all the things that they do. It's like, it's okay if you don't post that episode. Now what I would say is, like, for me, with my guests, they, because of the way that I structure it, where I'm asking a lot of questions, I'm getting their story that I've never had that happen on my show. I have heard of people doing that. That's usually more inexperienced guests. But when you have those guests on, for me, I will put it up on all of my personal ones. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, X, all the ones on Twitter, formerly known as Twitter threads. Because I, for me, I built the podcast because I'd been a guest, I guess it so often, and I now was a host, I wanted to promote the guests. So if that means putting it on my personal ones, I put it on my personal ones.

Sadaf Beynon [31:02 - 31:12]: Yeah. And does that, like. I'm thinking about benefits of doing that. Is that helping you establish your authority in that particular. Yeah.

Steven Pemberton [31:12 - 31:41]: Yep, that is exactly what it does. When. Because the other thing is too, is if you've been growing your own social medias for any period of time, if you, if somebody sees, it's like, wow, he just talked to the biggest logistics company in Mexico. It's like that means that he must be somebody. Or that changes. That changes how people perceive me. And what's really fascinating is that when you get perceived differently, you can have different conversations. So for me, absolutely, yes. It changes the authority piece.

Sadaf Beynon [31:42 - 31:52]: Yeah, that's cool. And then I guess that then translates to you being able to grow your business as well, because as you said, you have different conversations.

Steven Pemberton [31:52 - 32:46]: Yep. And it also helps you get on different guests in the beginning, if you. Because if you're only promoting it on your page, let's say in your page, or you're only promoting it on a different Instagram account and it's got three followers and it's all three of your other Instagram accounts. The unfortunate thing is, like, if you are reaching out from that account and you're asking somebody to come on the show and they say, well, you've only got three followers, they're most likely not going to come on. But if you are reaching out as you. So me reaching out to potential guests, and I can say, hey, I've had this person on, I've had this person on, I've had this person on, then they're more willing to say yes. And the other thing is, for people who are new and you're saying, Steven, I don't have anyone. That is. How am I supposed to even find guests? Is in the beginning just saying that you have a show and that you're willing to promote it on all of your social medias, there's people who are willing to get on the show just for the fact that you're willing to do that.

Sadaf Beynon [32:46 - 32:47]: Just for the exposure.

Steven Pemberton [32:47 - 32:49]: Just for the exposure.

Sadaf Beynon [32:49 - 33:01]: So have you got some stories of successful posts that on your own profile page that has then led to different conversations which has led to business growth?

Steven Pemberton [33:01 - 36:47]: Yes. So there's. And so I'll give you two, One is there was a gentleman who, his name is Jeremy Ryan Slate, and he has a massive podcast. I mean, what he. And it really blew up, I think closer to Covid. So he's been doing it for a long time, but he just did it in a way where that's his whole business. He travels the country, he helps people do all sorts of stuff now, but it's for me more than anything else was the advice that he gave and just the way that. Because as a podcaster and especially as a podcast host, I'm sure you will understand this is you. The difference between hosting and guesting is when you're a guest, I get to show up, I get to talk for however long I'm here, and then I get to leave, and then you get to handle everything else as the host, you have to handle everything. So you got to come up with the questions. You got to do the vetting, you got to do the editing. And even if you have a team, you got to pass that on. But the one thing that he gave me was he gave me Automations. And he said, hey, here's something that you're probably missing. He's like, how long have you. He was asking me this. He's like, how long you've been around? Oh, I've been around this long. It's like, how do you do your editing right now? Well, I do it by doing this, this, and this. And he goes, okay, here's some things you need to do. And then he gave me ways to use the new fancy word in the industry, AI. And he's like, this is how AI automates the majority. He's like, I had to let go of 10 staff members because AI took away their jobs where I could just take this, export it into this AI. And then here's how I have these other AIs set up to run this thing, and it comes out amazing. And so that one piece of advice helped me buy back my time. Another gentleman that I know, he's got a top 1% podcast and he's. And has helped his business grow exponentially. And the way that he's done it is he got a couple of great pieces of advice that changed his podcast. And one of them was frequency. And the one part about frequency is he's like, I was doing one podcast a week, he said, I went to three. And he said, when I went to three, he said, I went from not. He said, I think he had a hundred downloads a month to where he was getting 10,000 downloads a month and within six months. And he said, the way that happened was through the amount of frequency. And he said, of course, because I had more frequency and I'm posting it on all my social medias. When people found me and they found out what I do, he said it grew my business. So that's also the aspect too, is this is why you post, even if no one sees it. I had a. Just signed up a client not too long ago, and he came and he. All he did was he looked at my social medias and he said, hey, you're somebody I want to do business with. It's not like I'm getting 200,000 likes on every single post. But the thing is, is that I'm consistent. So it's the same thing with the podcast. That's why I said it earlier. Is just consistently just say that, hey, you're going to do it and just do it. And if you're going to make the post, just make them and do your best and continue to be willing to improve. But those are the two things, especially those two hosts. I've watched them now. There's one, this other one who took his podcast. Now, his podcast in the top 1% is that podcast. He's a close friend of mine now, and I talk to him quite often. But his. It's helped his business. Now he's in like 43 countries with, with clients because of just how he's presented his podcast, because people connect with people. So when somebody listens to this show, they're going to hear how you ask questions and they're going to say, hey, I really want to be on that show too, because I love the way that she's okay with just being herself. And that's also going to get you business. Because they're going to. And this is why it's important to show up authentically you. If you show up authentically you as the host and people and you're posting that, people can see, it's like, oh, this is somebody I'm at least willing to talk to. I want. I would love to be a guest. Or this is someone I want to talk to because they're very knowledgeable in this field. But that's the way that I've seen it completely change a lot of things, honestly.

Sadaf Beynon [36:47 - 36:53]: Yeah, that's. That's very cool. Do you have a good connection with your listeners?

Steven Pemberton [36:54 - 36:57]: I think I'm. I'm working on that one.

Sadaf Beynon [36:57 - 36:57]: Yeah.

Steven Pemberton [36:57 - 37:40]: If I'm really honest, that one is some. Is something that I haven't done a great job at. And so we're connecting with my listeners sometimes. Yeah. I mean, when it's. When an episode goes up, I'm very connected with them. It's like, hey, Steven, this is great. This is something that I love. When I'm doing the live ones, when they're asking questions. Yes. Now, long term, if it's an episode from a while ago and I'm getting feedback on it, I don't do as great a job going back and saying, hey, Gary said from that this episode from a year ago was trash and that I needed to work on the quality because a lot of times I'll just be like, oh, Gary just needs to go listen to one of the newer ones. It's like, if you listen to one of the newer ones, I've already addressed that, but I think that that's an area that I. Is one of my weakest points, if I'm on.

Sadaf Beynon [37:40 - 37:46]: So what are some of the. What are some of the things you think that as hosts we could be doing?

Steven Pemberton [37:47 - 37:49]: So what do you mean?

Sadaf Beynon [37:50 - 37:54]: To engage more with our listeners or feedback?

Steven Pemberton [37:54 - 41:59]: Yeah, so I think it's just two things is one, in the beginning, especially when people are giving you feedback, they're not. Even if it seems mean, they're not actually trying to be mean. People are willing to be much more mean behind a keyboard than they are in person. So when you start seeing those, those comments, I had this happen pretty early on where there was people because I'm a person of faith and I had a person on who they are of the same faith. And they had done really well in business and this person was ripping that person who had done really well in business because they're like, oh, this goes against everything we believe. Because they said they don't judge, but they're judging this person. And it's like, why are you attacking them, though? It's like you're actually judging them, judging somebody else. So you're just doing this loop. And the thing is, the best way to engage with those people that I found, because I've been doing it for a while on other social media posts, even before the podcast, is just actually reacting in honesty and in love. Because if you react to them, it's like, hey, I can understand how you feel that way. This is something that I do pretty well now. Do I do it all the time? No, I need to work on it. But with people who respond in a negative way instead of running away from it, because, I mean, it's human tendency to say, well, I'm just going to avoid conflict, so I'm going to leave that there. For me, as I try to address it, it's like, hey, I can understand where you're getting that from. I see your point of view. It's like, this is why I endorse them and this is why I promoted them, was because these are the things that I got from it. And then if they're still angry and upset, it's like, hey. Then I just respond with, hey, I just. I just want to honestly thank you so much for listening to the show because you had to listen to it to even get to that point. But those are the ways with engaging with the negative people. And then when the people who say, that's really good, because I do this very well on LinkedIn, is when the people say, hey, Steven, that was great. It's like, I loved. I just love the episode. I ask a different question is, okay, what did you love about the show? And if they don't have an answer, then maybe they didn't listen to it. But if they do have an answer, if they say, well, I loved how you asked him this and then they responded in this way is that gives me insight into what is good. And so that's the way that I look at it. With engaging your audience. A lot of times engaging your audience is going to come through if you have an email set up through your website. They'll come from emails, it'll come from comments on your social media posts. Is taking and learning something from both the negative and the positive. Don't just look at the positive and think everything is great and don't just look at the negative and think everything is awful. But finding the gold in both, okay, this person said that I was great and they said that I did a great job asking questions. So I'm going to keep asking questions. And then on the other side is if this person said that I'm terrible and I ask awful questions, then there's got to be a middle ground, right? So then it's. Then it gives you the insight of, okay, so I do ask good questions, but I could ask better questions and continuing to improve. But it's being willing to have the tough conversations on both sides, even with the positive side. If you really, if that's somebody that you know in the comments and that's a active listener who they've listened quite a few times, I comment quite a bit. Is asking them if every single time, because there was a guy who, he's done this with me every single time, he would comment and say, hey, this is great. This is what I got from it. But I asked him a different question. I asked him separately, I took it into the DMs and I asked him, okay, so you always support me. Thank you so much. It's amazing. I really appreciate it. Especially after this person just said that I'm trash. But what is it out of the show that you wish you would hear different? And because I want to not only grow from the negative side, I want to grow in the positive too. Every positive has a flip side. There's. There's something that you're listening to that you're saying, oh, I just wish they would have done this. Or I wish that the audio quality was better or the video quality was better or they had different lighting. And when you ask those questions and they tell you those Responses, you can let them know, hey, I'm actually working on that. Thank you. That's great feedback. Or it's like, oh, I'd never thought of that. They. Instead of starting with a story, maybe I start with more questions, put the story in the middle because that's more engaging. And then just be willing to test it. Like, don't get cemented into whatever your formula is. Be willing to test.

Sadaf Beynon [41:59 - 42:21]: Yeah. And yeah, I think that's. That's a really good point. Like, being able to. To move as and when you need to makes a big difference. One of the things I've found helpful is asking my guest how I could improve what I could do different. Because I think sometimes you don't. You'll get feedback that is actually quite constructive.

Steven Pemberton [42:21 - 42:21]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [42:22 - 42:32]: And I think that's what you need. Like, you know, there's lots of people that say, oh, that's great episode, well done. But you need. Sometimes you just need something a bit more that's going to help you actually improve.

Steven Pemberton [42:32 - 42:40]: Absolutely. Especially if it's something that you're going to do quite a bit is asking those questions is great because then you're going to improve on what you're going to do all the time.

Sadaf Beynon [42:40 - 42:50]: You touched on LinkedIn as one of your platforms for promoting your podcast. What else? Do you have any other platforms that you prioritize or market, really?

Steven Pemberton [42:50 - 44:40]: So for me, the ones that I've seen do the best for me has been LinkedIn by far. And that's just because of my overall business strategy. Now, when it comes to what I've seen work in the industry with other people is Facebook. If you in here, let me just be really candid as well. Whatever social media you're already growing, use that one. Because if you're already growing your Instagram, don't go to LinkedIn and then start fresh. If you had a LinkedIn from 10 years ago that you're working at McDonald's and you're don't. You don't have to go in there and revamp everything just to start there. So LinkedIn is working for me because that's my overall business strategy. Overall, I'm on LinkedIn much more. Overall, I'm having a lot more conversations on there, so it's more engaged with. If the. If I was doing the same exact thing on Instagram, then it would be. It would have been solely focused more on Instagram. Start where you're at. If you've been on Facebook for a long time, you have a lot of friends, family, you have a Lot of connections that you've already made, start there. And then if you're somebody who you're further down the road and you've just been LinkedIn centric, start branching out. Be diversified, like that's a word that we hear quite a bit in investing, but you also want to be diversified as far as where people are coming from, because let's be very honest with how these social media platforms are. It doesn't matter how big your following is. I have a client who, he's got a big following one day, changed everything for one of his Facebook groups. He has over 5,000 people. It was highly engaged. He was making a lot of money out of it. One algorithm changed, and because of that, there's basically no engagement. But he didn't depend on that. He was diversified. So if you are not diversified, that kills your business. And that's the same thing that happened to us in ecommerce. One thing changes, you're dead. Then you have to figure out the algorithm again, then you're alive. So you don't want that for your show, you don't want that for your social medias. Start in one place, then as you grow, go to multiple places.

Sadaf Beynon [44:40 - 44:55]: Thanks for that, Steven. I'm conscious of time, so I'm going to start wrapping things up. But before we do that, can you tell me within 60 seconds why you think that podcasting is such a great tool for growing one's business?

Steven Pemberton [44:55 - 45:53]: It's an amazing way to build relationships. I can do it in three seconds. But a little bit more. A little bit more explanation on that is the. If you want to make more money, build deeper relationships, especially when you have these guests on one is if a. If these guests are somebody powerful, if they're willing to sit down across from you on a video format, then that is somebody that they are willing to be in relationship with you in some way. So that's why it's important after the show to just continue to engage. And then, even after the show, before it airs, is continuing to engage through the email they gave you because they had to book that call, somehow continue to engage through LinkedIn, whatever it is, continuing to build that relationship. Because I have seen relations, one relationship turn into 10, and those 10 relationships turn into 20, and those 20 turn into 40. It's an exponential gain if you're willing to invest and just honestly invest in your time. But if you want to see your business grow, invest in those relationships. You will see that business grow.

Sadaf Beynon [45:53 - 45:56]: That's fantastic advice. Thank you. Thank you. That's great.

Steven Pemberton [45:56 - 45:57]: You're welcome.

Sadaf Beynon [45:57 - 46:03]: No Steven, thanks so much for joining us. Where can our listeners find more information about you?

Steven Pemberton [46:03 - 46:05]: LinkedIn LinkedIn is.

Sadaf Beynon [46:05 - 46:07]: I should have seen that one coming.

Steven Pemberton [46:07 - 46:23]: LinkedIn is a big one. Steven Pemberton on LinkedIn and then the other one. stevenpemberton.com like that's a pretty easy one to go to. If you want to learn more about my business. Elevate them digital. We just decided to be fun with the URL, but those are the three best places to find me.

Sadaf Beynon [46:23 - 46:59]: Cool. Yeah, I like that. Elevate them all right, so thanks again, Steven, and to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in to Podjunction Podcast. I hope today's episode inspires you to think creatively about how you can leverage podcasting for your own business growth as well. Be sure to check out Steven's podcast and to reach out to him on LinkedIn, and the links will be on the show. Notes if you found this episode helpful, we'd love for you to leave a review or share it with someone who could also benefit. I'm Sadaf Peinen. Thanks for listening. Bye for now. SA.