How to Turn Talks into Profit with High-Conversion Podcasting | Daniel Budai

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting. Whether you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just taking a moment for yourself, our week Weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or seasoned podcaster, grab your notebooks and get ready.

Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to another brand new episode of Podjunction. My name is Matt Edmundson. Beside me is the debonair. Sadaf Beynon. How are we doing? We're good. Yeah. I noticed actually, just looking across the table, you've taken your bracelet off because when we were getting set up, I did notice it was jingle jangling a little bit.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly why.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Fair play to you. So welcome to the show. It's great to have you here with us. We [00:01:00] are a podcast which talks about podcasting. Which I still think is quite funny, but yes, it's a podcast about podcasting where we talk about how, um, how to use podcasting to grow your business basically is what we do.

So yeah, what have we got coming up today?

Sadaf Beynon: So we've got Daniel Budai again,

Matt Edmundson: again, the legendary, yes,

Sadaf Beynon: and he is talking about how he uses a free audit that he offers to his podcast guests as a generation tool for his business.

Matt Edmundson: Ah, LeadGen. So we're getting into LeadGen with Dan Budai who is a legend.

Dan Budai was in the last episode, wasn't he? Yes, he was great. To be fair, ladies and gentlemen, whilst it may be a week between you listening to the episodes, depending on how you consume the content, it's been a few weeks since we recorded that one. I'm just wrecking my memory yes it was Dan, yes I remember what we talked about, yes, good.

So we've got Dan again this week Dan's such a legend I really like what Dan's done and he's really used podcasting to [00:02:00] grow his business quite a lot, so you're definitely going to want to pay attention to this because he has definitely walked the walk as they say. So yeah, it's you say there's a question you need to ask me before we Yes, I have a question.

Sadaf Beynon: And I will take this with me whenever.

Okay, so what's the most unexpected feedback that you've ever received from a listener and how did it impact you? So not a guest,

Matt Edmundson: but a listener. The most unexpected feedback. That's a really good question. I'm glad I was prepped about this beforehand. There's a few instances which stick out in my mind, right?

There was had one the other day, a friend of yours, a guy called Nick. Is it Nick, the art guy? Do you know who I mean? Yes. I think it's Nick. The GP. No, his name will come back to me. That's really bad, isn't it? Anyway. The

Sadaf Beynon: posters guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a GP. He's a GP.

Matt Edmundson: As well. [00:03:00] Oh, okay.

Didn't even know that. Anyway, Nick, contact me on Instagram. And said really loved this show, the eCommerce Podcast. And he went all the way back to episode one. I'm like, that always surprises me. And it's not him. It's not just him. There's people that reach out to me on LinkedIn all the time going, yeah, I really love the show.

I'm going to start again from episode one and consume them all. I'm like, that is. That's hundreds of hours of content and it's eCommerce. It's not four years ago. Some of it still makes sense, it was like four years ago in digital terms is where it's pre Covid, post

Sadaf Beynon: Covid, a lot of changes,

Matt Edmundson: right?

There's been a lot of changes, but the one which surprises me, surprised me the most at one point I was stopped in the street and someone recognized me. Nice. Tell us about that. They'd been watching the video. They're like, you're that guy on YouTube, aren't you? I was like, and it turns out, yeah, they'd been watching the show.

Is that EP again? Yes. I [00:04:00] think, I can't remember. I think it was EP. It was one of the podcasts. It must have been EP because it was pre Push. And just recognize me Oh, you're the guy on the, I was like, what the

Sadaf Beynon: That's cool. But you know what, that's actually like often when you start a podcast, you can go for months before anyone picks you up.

So it's nice that someone goes back and actually watches those early ones.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Actually Episode 1, you can't watch on EP, it's listen only. And I was listening to it the other day because we were we've created a new social media channel for EP. And so we were talking about, the importance of the first nine posts.

Maybe we should do something like, the first nine posts on Instagram for a podcast at some point. So anyway we're on about, how do we create the first nine posts and stuff. One of the posts was, I remember some of the questions like, how did it get started and all that sort of stuff.

And I'm like it'd be just really interesting to actually listen to episode one. And I went back and went, Oh my Lord.

Sadaf Beynon: Were you cringing inside?

Matt Edmundson: I was like, Ooh, I just would not do it this way now. It's just all a big learning [00:05:00] curve, isn't it? Yeah. Have you had any surprising feedback? No. No. That was a short answer. Okay. On that bombshell, let's listen to Dan Badai and let's get into This clip then Sadaf and I will be back to chat about how it works for us.

Here we go.

So you came up with the idea then of doing this free audit as like a sort of an easy next step for clients to take. You obviously do some kind of audit on their retention marketing and come up with some strategy for them. Do most people Then go on from the audit to being clients. Is that, cause it sounds to me like the audit is a fair bit of work.

But I imagine if you're still doing it, then it's worthwhile. Yeah,

sure.

Daniel Budai: Once they get to the audit, they can see the value. And I think it's really valuable for them. And it's free, right? So free audit. And I think not half of them, but [00:06:00] like one third of them, they become clients in the end and some of them later, they come back a few months later.

So I think we can say half of them, they become clients. Within six months.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. That's really interesting. The third of people become clients is a similar statist statistic to a few other people that I've spoken to actually, that do a similar sort of thing and who have slightly different mechanisms, but these interesting sort of trip wires along the way.

That you you convert about a third and when you think about, I just wanna rewind. And say to you, you're converting about a third. I don't know of anything else which has such high conversion ratios to clients. If you think about what the, is podcasting right for my business? You think here's Daniel saying to you, there's a mechanism that he has where he converts a third of his.

Clients, in effect, or potential clients, ideal guests, and you go, that's a really interesting thing to [00:07:00] do, isn't it? Really interesting thing. And I guess if you've established quite a good relationship through the podcast, you then deliver value through your services. Do you find a lot of people stay customers because you've, it feels like you would have a better relationship with those customers, right?

In the long run,

Yeah,

Daniel Budai: Also what I have realized, these podcast guests, these tend to be the best

clients, really good clients,

and maybe it's just because of the personality fit, I don't know because, when a client comes from, let's say a cold email, but not from the podcast, Or from a platform.

We are on a few platforms like Clutch, we are still on Upwork. Sometimes we have clients from there and there we know them less, their personality. And, those are harder to handle sometimes, while with referrals and podcasts it's much better. They stay longer, they spend more. Our average client stays with us 12 months.

So [00:08:00] one year, but these podcast guests, they tend to, again, they tend to stay longer and spend more.

Sadaf Beynon: If you're intrigued and want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out PodJunction Cohort where you can listen to the complete interview and much more. Simply visit theplodjunction. com for more information about how to join.

Matt Edmundson: Welcome back. That was a subtle cut. Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: sorry about that.

Matt Edmundson: Again, welcome to Podjunction Cohort.

Sadaf Beynon: Good reason to go to Cohort and finish off that his thought.

Matt Edmundson: I love that. Absolutely love that. So yeah, very good. Well done to the editing team there. We nailed that one.

As you can see, ladies and gentlemen, or hear, if you're listening to the audio version, [00:09:00] when we do podcasts, we just tend to leave it in, warts and all just a bit more authentic, including edits like that, because why not? It's just a bit more fun. It just means I can just make fun of something, create a laugh, which is, super important.

So yeah, welcome back. Now yeah, if you want to chat, it's worth saying, if you want to check out that full interview with Daniel, which is just an astounding interview and get into a bit more detail. Do go check out Podjunction Cohort where you can listen to the whole interview in its in its, I was going to say the whole interview in its entirety, which is an obvious statement, but you can listen to the whole thing in Cohort.

Daniel's a legend. Now, just to reaffirm the strategy to give you the basics of what Daniel's doing here, so you know. If it's just in case it's not clear, Daniel uses his podcast to invite people onto his show, who would be an ideal client, right? That's what he does. And so he brings them onto the show.

He talks to them. They obviously deliver some kind of value for the podcast guest. [00:10:00] And then Dan offers them like a free audit. Cause it's like, Hey, we're a retention marketing company. We do this, and this. If you would like us to, we'll, we can do, we have this free audit that we'll do for your business and your retention marketing.

And it's definitely not a heavy sell. And he's, he's got his email follow up sequences on the back of that. And out of the customers that say yes, so out of the podcast guests that say yes, he ends up doing this free retention marketing audit, which is actually a high value thing. So it's not like you just, the problem with audits, I find.

I don't know if you find the same. Someone offers me an audit. I'm like, you're just going to sit there and pick fault with everything that we've done and tell me how you do it better. And so they they've lost their appeal a little bit to me just because I'm just like, I just don't want to hear I'm doing wrong from you and tell me how you're doing, but I don't think Dan does that.

That's not my experience with him. But he does do this audit. He delivers high value to the clients. Then one third of the people to a half of those people that do the audit within six months become his client. So he is using the podcast as a lead [00:11:00] generation tool. . He's using it to talk to high value clients, so people that he, will end up buying his services.

. So very targeted in who he has as a guest. His strategy then is to offer them a sort of a next step after the podcast. , and. That leads to a very definite sort of growth in his customer base. So that's how he's using Podcast to grow his business and he's talking there specifically about this free audit.

So yeah, just to put it in context. I thought that would be helpful. That is very

Sadaf Beynon: helpful.

Matt Edmundson: Thank you, Matt. My pleasure.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So what did you take away? What did you think? Anything stick out?

Matt Edmundson: I think it's interesting, isn't it? Because The free audit as an idea. So the concept of this free audit is, like I say you've got this person on your show, you're, so you're using the show to interview.

People who would make great guests great clients. And what Dan has done, which I think is brilliant and it does work very well is he's then offered a very clear next step, right? [00:12:00] So that's the great thing about that audit. Now I'm not saying an audit is something that, every podcaster should do if you're using it to talk to your ideal guests, if you're using podcasts for that strategy.

But offering clients a very clear next step in their journey with you, that makes a lot of sense. Whether it's an audit, whether it's a free e book, whether it's a free service, whether it's a reduced price service. I think you have to test it a little bit. But I think it has to be a no brainer. As in, if you offer something, it has to be something that makes sense for the guest.

Yeah. And is very hard to say no to. Huh. So yeah I think the strategy of offering something to guests like that is, is really good.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a chance to showcase your expertise. You're putting the money where your mouth where your money is, money where your mouth is.

Matt Edmundson: Just pick either one, it'll be fine. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And also it's [00:13:00] an incentive, as you said for the client to. engage with you?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. I think you need to give them another easy yes. So Inviting someone onto your show who you don't know as a way to initially connect with them is an easy yes, I think.

Certainly if you're talking to CEOs, business leaders, which Daniel is, because his whole company is about retention marketing. Especially for eCom businesses, using email. To retain customers. That's what his whole company's all about. So he's gonna go and get on e-commerce business owners. That's what he's gonna do.

And then he's gonna talk to 'em about how they would do retention marketing and start to form that relationship. And he's giving them an easy yes. . Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think it's good to have two or three easy yeses. Your lead your potential clients to say yes to.

I'm just re-listening to what I've just said in my head. It does make sense. Yes. , there's a lot of yeses in that [00:14:00] sentence. So giving clients an easy yes and having a very deliberate journey, I think is really important for podcast guests. , right? So if you are selling, it doesn't matter what you sell, like Dan's retention, marketing, let's say you do.

I don't know, like an online course, right? So you could use your podcast, you go and get people who would as a guest on the show, you interview them, people who are like your course members, right? So it's very targeted. These would be the kind of people that would buy your course. And you go listen.

Come on to the show. You have a conversation with them. Maybe there's something you can give them in between the course. It's I can give you a free audit or a one on one coaching session, or I can chat to you about this. Or we've got this thing over here, which we can give you, which we'll onboard.

Whatever that is, I think it's a great thing to do. Now in terms of when you offer this, then Dan does it in the same [00:15:00] conversation. So you'll have the interview, he'll end the interview like 10 minutes before the hard deadline. Yeah. So if you scheduled an hour with the client to record or the guest to record, he'll end it, 10 minutes to, and then he'll just spend two, three minutes, not a heavy sell at all, just telling you about the audit and whether or not you want to, you want to take them up on that.

Yeah, I think having an easy yes, just taking two or three minutes in a non pressure environment, you've already, as long, what I find is when we do this, cause we do it with push, one of our strategies is with push, there are like with Podjunction guests, there are things that we could talk to them about that there's all kinds of things that we can bring in to take them on that journey with us to give them the sort of the next easy yes.

Yeah. And I think it's just important to do. So yeah, definitely do it, pick your time, whether the end of the podcast is the right time, whether you need more interaction before the next steps and you've just got to test it, I [00:16:00] think. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. In summary, it's a very effective tool for lead gen then.

Matt Edmundson: It's super effective. I think podcasting is a very effective tool for networking and for making new connections. I think. The next step will give those people, will move them from just being connections to leads, right? So it is, I think that it is a good next step, lead generation. What I find also is actually people come back to you, they might say to you, Oh no, it's okay, I don't need the audit now.

But six months later, if you stayed in touch with them and maintain that relationship, they may come back to you and say, you remember that free audit that you said, is it, could we do that now? And so that can also happen, I think. So it, it is a bit of a long game. The downside to it, is it's one to one.

In other words, your, his approach is you go get a client or potential client on your [00:17:00] podcast. You record the podcast, which is not, it's fairly straightforward, but let's, there's effort involved. And then I'm offering them a free audit. So I'm doing a lot of work up front to try and get the client.

And it's very much all about Dan. So Dan has to do it. Dan has to interview the guest. Dan has to offer the free audit. He doesn't actually do the audit all the time, I wouldn't have thought, but maybe he does. I don't know, but it's one of those things where it's very resource intensive for you.

That's the downside to it. And so like with Push, the Push To Be More podcast is very much this format. We go and find people who we think would be ideal guests. We interview them. I interview them. We chat to them. And then we have a, a conversation at the end about and we've, we are experimenting with things like, do we do the audit, do we do a free workshop, do we do a free online course that's, we're ordinarily charging money for over here and they could access it, and does that then lead on to bigger things?

You've got to test these different things, right? And so we can do that with. push, but it is [00:18:00] very demanding on my time. So I can maybe record. I could, record seven or eight episodes a week. If I really want. I could just set a whole day aside and just talk to people. So you've got to decide if it's worthwhile for you, I think to do that.

I don't know if I'd do this on an eCommerce business, if I was selling the client like 30 bucks worth of product, at the end of it, maybe if their lifetime value is high enough, it's worth doing. I think I'd probably have other things involved in that. Yeah. Yeah. But I think if you've got high value clients that require a good relationship at the start. Yeah. And you don't mind getting your, you don't mind getting your feet dirty or whatever, your hands dirty or your feet. Either one's fine. Pick one. Pick one's totally fine. But I think it's a really interesting strategy and I think it, it, it definitely works for us.

I've just seen it work for other people. I know it works super well for Dan. What was interesting was, I don't know if you picked up on this, was he said that podcasting guests make the best clients. In that. No, I didn't [00:19:00] pick up on it. Yeah. The way it worked was the relationship. with podcasting guests?

Because it starts on a very different footing, right? So let's say I, I go and invite you onto my show, right? I'm trying to flog you my podcasts and services. You come onto the show. We have a great conversation. It's a great way to start a relationship. You remember it. I remember it's just good fun.

We put the podcast out, you share it with your friends. It's something that you're proud of, right? And all that sort of stuff versus if you. And then I say to you, listen, we do the retention marketing thing. Would you like a free audit? And you go, I haven't stance. Yeah, that'd be great actually.

And so you take that and then you end up, becoming a client. And what Dan said is you if you go that route, you stay longer and you spend more, right? Whereas if you just approach our agency and say, listen I need some help with retention marketing and we go, sure, here's what we do. Even if I offer that same free [00:20:00] audit, that client is less likely to stay as long or spend as much.

And the reason is not because what the value of the service is the same. It, the reason is because what, how it started, that relationship started. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, I do. And so that's incredibly powerful. So that the relationship starts on a much better footing. We've talked about this before, meaningful conversations on a podcast and how guests come onto a show and instantly open up.

Instantly, it's not even. You don't even have to warm up, on Push we start with a question, which I, we start, we ask guests on the, I ask guests on the podcast, I've read their bio out, I've introduced them to the show and I read it out and I say, listen, if you could have your own podcast and you could have anybody on the show as your guest to interview, past or present, that's had a really big impact on your life, who would it be and why, right?

That's a deep question to get straight into. Yeah. If I make, if you called me up and said, listen, I'm interested in your podcasting service. And I said, great Sadaf, [00:21:00] listen, let me ask you a question before we get started. You're going to go, who is this lunatic? On the phone, what is he talking about?

Whereas on a podcast, because we're recording it, it just makes total sense, right? It's a different environment and you're like, yeah, let's do it. I remember, I think I've mentioned this before, but I remember one guest saying to me, Matt, I told you in the first 30 minutes that conversation stuff, I've not told my closest friends.

You talk about a great way to start a relationship with a potential client, right? So yeah, it's one of those where I think bringing it back to what Dan was talking about, the free audit, having a very clear next step for your guests, if you're using this strategy, makes an awful lot of sense.

Now, can I do a shameless plug? Yeah. Go for it. I'm going to. Shameless plug. If you want to know more about this strategy. We have a course called the Podcast Connection Accelerator and at the time of recording [00:22:00] it is almost done. So hopefully when this comes, it's coming out next week, isn't it?

It is, yeah. So yeah. I. Certainly, the first part of the course is now live. The second part is getting uploaded in the next week. So there's a brand new course called Podcast Connection Accelerator, which walks you through this exact strategy. So we take you through it line by line, like how to find the guests, how to email them, how to structure your interview, all that sort of stuff.

So if you want to know more, check out the course, which will be promoted on the Pod Junction website. So it is a really interesting strategy. That Dan talks about here, and we do have a course that goes into more detail about it if you would like to know more. So check that out at podjunction.com. Just click on the courses link and it's called Podcast Connection Accelerator.

So there you go. That was my shameless bloke. Thank you, . That was great. No. Thank you,

Sadaf Beynon: All right, so where are we up to, Matt?

Matt Edmundson: Is there anything from you? You've got lots of green ink on your paper. Is there anything from you? I've talked a lot on this [00:23:00] episode, sorry.

Sadaf Beynon: No, that's okay. Something you were saying earlier about, Dan has to do a lot of legwork. And spend a lot of time in, investing in doing the audits and all that.

And I think you're right, but I think on the flip side it feeds into that whole relationship building, doesn't it? Because it shows the client that these guys are actually committed to, or investing in us. And also they know their stuff. Yeah. I think for Dan it, it works really well, doesn't it?

Like his offer and obviously the results he's getting from that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, totally. For his business, it makes a lot of sense. For what we do with the podcast agency, it makes a lot of sense. That strategy, does it work for an eCommerce business? It could do I think there's other things that you would bring into that.

I don't think it's the sole strategy. But I think if you've got clients that are, we often say to people when talking about this particular strategy, for me, if you have a CLV or a customer [00:24:00] lifetime value of at least 4, 000, right? So if a customer's worth at least four grand to you. I think it's a really interesting strategy to look at.

I've not seen many things perform as well as it does. Like I say, the only downside is it requires a lot of effort from the podcast host who's usually, not all the time, but who's usually the CEO or leader of the business. Because that's who clients probably want to talk to really but yeah I do think it's an interesting strategy.

The other

Sadaf Beynon: thing I wanted to point out, and I think a lot of our guests who've been on the show have said this as well, about targeting who your guests are going to be, like being heavily targeted with that. And I think it's the same with marketing. If you have targeted marketing, you get better results if you target your guests well.

You know who your listeners are, all of, that whole mix the closer you get to getting that on point.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, the better off you're going to be. Yeah. Yeah. And I think your guests have to resonate. With who your, like you say who your target audience is. . And if you [00:25:00] use Dan's strategy, your guests have to resonate with the clients that you have.

Or you, we call them your ideal clients, right? Yeah. So maybe not clients that you have, but big clients that you want. Yeah. So they have to resonate with those two audiences. . There's no point in us interviewing somebody who's not really had a podcast. Yeah. On this show, it wouldn't make any sense for our audience.

. And it wouldn't make any sense for the stuff which we offer those guests that come onto our show because we have the courses, we have the mastermind and all that sort of stuff. And so it wouldn't make sense to do that. So we have to, like you say, we have to be targeted. So you're right.

The more targeted you can be, the more thought you put into it, I think the better the outcome. Yeah, definitely. All right. Is there anything else?

Sadaf Beynon: No, I've got all my notes covered now.

Matt Edmundson: That was close. Wow. Do we know who's in next week's show? We do. I want to say we, I'm looking at you. Richard Brooks.

Richard [00:26:00] Brooks. What a legend. Agents of Change. Oh yeah. We've got Rich Brooks coming up next week, but do check out Dan's podcast, check out his details. Everything's in the show notes and the show links. You can find out more about Dan, reach out to him. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. And as we say, if you'd like to listen to the full interview and why would you not?

The man is such a legend. Check out Podjunction Cohort, cause that's where it will be. It's super low cost to be a member. It's not even the cost of a cup of coffee these days. Not that I buy coffee I buy coffee for other people. Yeah. I, no it's almost the price of a cup of tea.

Biscuit tea. Biscuit. Yeah. Yeah, biscuit tea. Which is normally what I drink. But that's another story. Yeah, do check it out, Podjunction Cohort, everything's on the website, podjunction. com. But yeah, it's been great to chat to you this week. Enjoyed this one. Yeah, me too. All right, we'll see you next week.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction, where business meets podcasting. [00:27:00] If you enjoyed the insights from today and wish to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com. Visit thepodjunction. com where you'll find more information about how you can join today.

Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep tuning in, keep learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.