How to get Good Podcast Content Using Deep Questions | Steven Pemberton

Sadaf Beynon [0:06 - 0:19]: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast, where podcasters learn to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and beside me is Matt Edmundson. Woohoo. I feel like we need one of those Woos back on the sand desk. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [0:19 - 0:20]: Matt made it in.

Sadaf Beynon [0:20 - 0:21]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [0:21 - 0:29]: We're never quite sure if Matt's going to make it in. It's always a bit of a debate, but. No, it's good to be here. Welcome. Welcome to the show. It's exciting.

Sadaf Beynon [0:29 - 0:30]: It is, yeah. So we've got.

Matt Edmundson [0:30 - 0:31]: It's the first recording.

Sadaf Beynon [0:32 - 0:33]: It is.

Matt Edmundson [0:33 - 0:45]: So we've just spent half an hour setting up the studio because every weekend I decide to take it to pieces and hopefully everything's working okay. So it's good to be with you. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to this because we've got Mr. Pemberton.

Sadaf Beynon [0:45 - 0:49]: Yes, we do. Mr. Pemberton returning for part two.

Matt Edmundson [0:49 - 0:50]: Steve.

Sadaf Beynon [0:50 - 1:00]: Steven. Yeah. All right, so in this episode, we are going to be talking about storytelling and how us as hosts can ask. Ask deeper questions.

Matt Edmundson [1:02 - 1:06]: And so it's a really complicated statement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

Sadaf Beynon [1:06 - 1:23]: And just draw out more meaningful stories from the guests. So you're going to be learning two things. One, how to ask those deeper, more emotional, emotionally driven questions. And two, how doing the research on your guests will help you ask better questions.

Matt Edmundson [1:24 - 1:38]: Oh, okay. So if you're new to the show, very warm welcome to you. Let me explain to you the format, how this is going to work. So Seth's told you what we're going to do. We've got A clip from Mr. Steven Pemberton. We are going to release the full interview for that. When?

Sadaf Beynon [1:39 - 1:41]: In about three weeks.

Matt Edmundson [1:41 - 1:42]: Okay. So we've got a lot of clips from Steven.

Sadaf Beynon [1:43 - 1:44]: We've got four all together.

Matt Edmundson [1:44 - 2:06]: Oh, wow. And this is number two. So in a few weeks, you'll be able to hear the full interview. The way it works is we take clips from the interview and then we chat about it and figure out how it's going to help us with app. Because we'd like you. We podcast and so just stuff that we've learned along the way and how it's helping us. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. Without further ado, let's chat to Mr. Steven Pemberton.

Sadaf Beynon [2:06 - 2:29]: Actually thinking about what you said earlier about how you started the podcast. You had all that time when you were just speaking into the camera, you know, just creating content just for yourself. You had a lot of practice, and I guess that's what a lot of people would start doing. When they're first starting their podcasting journey. Right. Like, with a guest, I mean.

Steven Pemberton [2:29 - 4:03]: Yes. And even with that. Here's my take on that as well. Is like, I was a guest on tons of shows before I ever became a host, so you would think, oh, there's going to be major carryover into being a host. I would tell you that's not true. And the reason why I would say that's not true is because when you're used to being the one getting asked the questions, you're not having to formulate the questions. And it's the same way even in business, where in business, if you're not the one, if you're doing sales calls, you have to be the best one on the call asking questions. So the power of your question dictates the power of your answer. So if you want to get amazing content for your podcast, ask a really good question. And for me, what I've found is if you do a little bit of research beforehand to figure out who they are, what they've done, maybe something they don't really talk about very often, instead of just getting the story of their. Because everyone wants to get the backstory, which is great. But when you're listening to the backstory, I had this gentleman on who he was a big, big motivational speaker. And then he got convicted of murder. And so. And the story is. And I'm sitting there, it's like, wow, as I'm listening, but I've already done my research. So what I did was, instead of asking him, it's like, okay, what was it like when you were at the peak and you're making all your money? Or what was it like when you were, like, coming out of jails? My question was, is what was your initial thoughts when you got convicted? I wanted to ask a deeper question because I wanted to understand what is he feeling? Because if you can draw emotions out of your guest, that is the same kind of emotions that the listener is going to pick up on.

Sadaf Beynon [4:03 - 4:15]: Yeah, yeah. Listening to you say that, it seems like you place a strong emphasis on the why behind your guest journeys. And like, so you know the importance of storytelling.

Steven Pemberton [4:16 - 4:16]: Yes.

Sadaf Beynon [4:16 - 4:20]: So why do you think that is so powerful in podcasting?

Steven Pemberton [4:20 - 6:55]: Because it's the same as just having good friendships. Like, you don't. If you were hanging out with your friends and all they did was give you basically the analytical rundown of their week. Well, this week I woke up at 6am and then I did three phone calls. It's like, oh, this is boring. But if you hear a story of why they did those things. They hear the story of, hey, I've been up at 6am every single day. I've been hitting the phones at 6:30 in the morning every single day because I'm excited to go on this trip. And I know that if I don't get this amount of work done, I'm not going to be able to take the trip where I've been planning this for the last five years and yada, yada, yada. But you want to understand the story, the heart behind why they decided to do those things and just asking that simple question. I mean, as kids, for me, I have a son, he asks this question all the time, but he will ask why. And the. And just asking that one question, when people sit there and they start telling you, it's like, you know, I did this and I did this and I did this and these are the things that work for me. It's just asking why. Like for some people there's even in business and podcasting, they will have rapid acceleration. And to them that seems normal. But to other people who haven't had the same rapid acceleration, asking the question why or the que, it's like, why? Why do you think that you had that massive acceleration in your business? Oh, then they have to actually investigate instead of it just like magically happened overnight. They got to go back 10 years and say, well, oh, I did this and this and this and this. And I remember when I was sleeping on the couch and I was working 21 hours a day and these are the things that I had to go through. It's like, now you're getting to distill down stories and stories, even in business, stories sells sell more than anything else. So if you can have a powerful story and even for my people listening, where if you're looking at corporate jobs, I used to be a manager in corporate for a long time. Is having powerful stories. If somebody asks you, hey, give me an example of a time where you had to, you had to reprimand somebody for something that they did. Instead of you saying, well, this one time I talked to Jim and I told Jim that he did that bad is have a really powerful story of Jim was on this forklift and he almost ran somebody over. And I noticed it. And instead of me just going straight to the supervisor, I went to Jim and I said, hey, Jim, I saw that you were on your cell phone. And with you being on your cell phone, you almost hit Gary. And Gary's got two, I've got a Wife and two kids. And I just want to let you know that if you hit Gary, it's like, then we're all set back. But just having a story for those situations is going to sell you more. And this is the same thing with your guests, if you can get them to. If you can draw out more details on the story. That's where the beauty really happens in podcasting.

Sadaf Beynon [6:59 - 7:07]: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson [7:11 - 7:14]: Welcome back. That was a short clip.

Sadaf Beynon [7:14 - 7:16]: That was short, but it was good.

Matt Edmundson [7:16 - 7:29]: Short but good. Short but good. I like that. I like the. I mean, he talks at the end there about stories. Story. And I was listening to a podcast with Carrie Newhoff and Malcolm Gladwell.

Sadaf Beynon [7:29 - 7:29]: Okay.

Matt Edmundson [7:29 - 7:39]: Recently. And Carrie was asking Malcolm about his writing process, because Malcolm Gladwell is. Is a prolific writer. And have you ever read any of his books?

Sadaf Beynon [7:39 - 7:40]: I have, yeah.

Matt Edmundson [7:40 - 7:45]: They're quite engrossing. I mean, you get engaged. I heard him speak once at the Philharmonic.

Sadaf Beynon [7:45 - 7:46]: Oh, wow.

Matt Edmundson [7:46 - 9:01]: And for two hours, he just stood on stage. Didn't. Hardly moved. But you were totally captivated by what he was saying for two hours. Because the way he talked about it with Kerry is he basically has a question that he wants to answer, and the answer isn't always obvious, and he wants to tell a story, in effect, to help you find that answer. And this. He distills this whole process down to this whole idea of finding a question and finding a story, which, in effect, is what Steven was talking about. I thought you are listening to someone talk, you have some questions because you want to find out the story. Right. And I thought it was a really powerful thing. And so this whole idea of digging in to find the story, it's almost like podcasting. When you're interviewing, you become like an investigative journalist, and I. And your whole thing is to find the story in there. And you can do it one or two ways. I suppose you could be that crazy, aggressive, you know, person, or you can be the timid person or. I mean, you know, I suppose different roles, different people is now you take on whichever one you want to do. But the point of this is find the story. And I like that.

Sadaf Beynon [9:02 - 9:04]: Why is that, Matt? Why do you like it?

Matt Edmundson [9:06 - 9:18]: Do you see what she did there? I saw that. And I saw you just wrote why in big letters in your notes when Stephen was talking. Just asking why a lot. Very clever. Do you want me to actually.

Sadaf Beynon [9:18 - 9:21]: Yeah, Yeah, I do.

Matt Edmundson [9:21 - 10:52]: I feel like I'M a guinea pig right now. Why do I like storytelling? I think stories are memorable. Fundamentally, people remember stories, and stories make you feel a certain emotion, and people remember emotion. They don't always remember what was said. They don't always remember the facts, but they do remember how they felt. And stories are a really good way of engaging people's emotions. They're a really good way of engaging people's memories, and they're just. They're just fascinating. And I think as humans, we like stories. We've always liked stories. And so, you know, we had Steven on one of our podcasts called what's the Story? Interestingly, and we dig into his story a little bit more, and fair play to him. Steven, totally vulnerable guy. I mean, when you hear his story and he just totally opens up. I. I asked him how long he'd been married. Have you heard it? No, I. Have you heard the interview? Okay. So I asked him how long he'd been married in the interview, and he said, I will never forget his answer because he said, I've been married for 11 years, but happily married for four. And I obviously started laughing. And then I said, oh, I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't laugh at something like that. And he said, no, no. He said, I tell it in such a way because it invokes that emotion. Which, I mean, it's like. It's an interesting statement, but of course, it immediately, at this point, you have the option to go, what do you mean? Or you just brush past it.

Sadaf Beynon [10:52 - 10:53]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [10:53 - 12:26]: And I think one of the. One of the interesting things about podcasts is you can push deeper and people are okay with it. So I always tell the example of Chris George. You know, he came on the podcast, I think it was Chris, and he said to me, you know, after we recorded a interview on Push, which again, I ask, really, I don't mind prodding. I don't mind going deeper. He said to me, I told you stuff in the first 30 minutes I've not told some of my closest friends. And that's one of the beautiful things about podcasting. If you and I were down in the pub, right, and you were a stranger, and I'd never met you, and I started asking you some of the questions that I would ask you on the podcast. You'd be like, who is this lunatic? Get away from me. You are like, I don't want to give you this much information, but put a camera in front of you and call it a podcast. You will open up like, there's no tomorrow. And so I think people are usually happy to go deeper on a podcast and be more vulnerable, more emotionally vulnerable, especially. And so those deeper stories are really fascinating. So when I said, Stephen, what's going on? He then talks about his wife having an affair. And so then we dig into that. Right. And it's like, what did you do? How did you feel? Long story short, him and his wife made up. They've been happily married for the last four years, and everything is much better. They sort a whole bunch of stuff out. But. But, you know, I'm just giving you the facts, but actually you want to know the story, because as he tells the story, you get all the emotion.

Sadaf Beynon [12:26 - 12:29]: Yeah. And I think it's the emotion that creates the connection.

Matt Edmundson [12:29 - 12:30]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [12:30 - 12:36]: So between you as a host and your guest, and also the listener and the guest.

Matt Edmundson [12:36 - 13:10]: Yeah, yeah, it does. Very much so. And so as you're doing the interviews, that would be. It's a really important piece of advice. Thing Steven's given here is get to the emotions of things quite quickly, if you can. And so the facts are. So when Steven talked about his wife, they were the facts. And they're shocking facts in many ways. But if you leave it there, you kind of, as a listener, I think you feel a little bit. Not cheated, but it's like it's.

Sadaf Beynon [13:10 - 13:11]: Want to know more?

Matt Edmundson [13:11 - 13:38]: Yeah. It feels a little bit incomplete. And so asking how you felt about that, how did you deal with that? Getting into it? An awful lot more. It draws people in, and Stephen was more than happy to talk about it. And I think. I mean, you and I have recorded some podcasts, and again, you can state facts, but it's more about. Well, what did that mean? How did you feel? How did. Yeah, it just draws it out so much more.

Steven Pemberton [13:38 - 13:38]: Right.

Sadaf Beynon [13:38 - 13:43]: Yeah. It's allowing them space to be more reflective, isn't it, Rather than just the facts, as you say.

Matt Edmundson [13:43 - 13:54]: Yeah, it is, it is. I mean, if you think about it, what's the most memorable interview, podcast wise, that you know, that we've done for you?

Sadaf Beynon [13:58 - 14:01]: There was one that I can think of. Brett Curry's.

Matt Edmundson [14:02 - 14:02]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [14:02 - 14:19]: On. On Push to Be More, wasn't it? Yeah, I think it was that one, because he's done a couple. But in both of the one. Both of the ones he did, he was. He was very open about his life, and I. Some of his story I could resonate with.

Matt Edmundson [14:19 - 14:22]: So what was it about his story that you resonated with?

Sadaf Beynon [14:23 - 14:24]: His. His mom passed away.

Matt Edmundson [14:24 - 14:25]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [14:25 - 14:27]: Didn't she? Yeah, which I was 15.

Matt Edmundson [14:27 - 14:28]: She died of cancer. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [14:28 - 14:44]: Yeah. And my mom's passed away, so being able to. I mean, like, his is. Obviously, everyone's story is very different, but a lot of the emotions, I think, were quite similar. Christian home, you know, all that background. But yeah.

Matt Edmundson [14:44 - 15:11]: Yeah, it was a really fascinating conversation with Brett. He appeared on all three podcasts that we had at the time. We've not had him on Podjunction yet. We have Brett, come on Pod Junction. But it's. Yeah. And I remember that interview. I can't tell you all the facts that Brett said, but I can tell you my. How I felt and how I responded to what he was saying.

Sadaf Beynon [15:11 - 15:11]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [15:12 - 15:25]: And I. Which is why now, if people ever ask me about Brett Courier, I'm like, that guy is such a legend. Because you just come away totally inspired, having lived through what he's lived. He's got eight kids. Eight kids.

Sadaf Beynon [15:25 - 15:27]: That part didn't resonate with me.

Matt Edmundson [15:28 - 15:41]: That was the part where I was like, what the. And he was talking about what it was like to be a dad to eight kids. And the other day, he posted some pictures on LinkedIn of him walking his daughter down the aisle.

Sadaf Beynon [15:41 - 15:42]: Oh, how sweet.

Matt Edmundson [15:42 - 16:15]: So one of his kids got married, and you should have seen the smile on his face. I mean, it was just ear to ear. He was so happy. So I text him and just said, brett, this is awesome, man. I'm totally stoked for you. And we went back and forth a little bit, and you can just feel it. And so you just come away with this impression of people. And Brett is just such a cool guy. But it's interesting that that's the one you remember, because it resonated with you, those emotions and there. Whereas if Brett would have just talked about, oh, yeah, my mum passed away when I was 15. But then that was that. It's like there's nothing to connect with.

Sadaf Beynon [16:15 - 16:15]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [16:15 - 16:45]: Other than a fact. I mean, oh, your mum passed away. My mum passed away. But as he talks about it, you can kind of connect with that and resonate with that. And this is one of those things I think that you can do with podcasting. Like I say, go deeper. But some reason we shy away from those kind of conversations. And I found, I think as. As I've got better at interviewing, I've become more comfortable asking the deeper questions. I think that's one of the progressions, if that makes sense.

Sadaf Beynon [16:45 - 17:06]: Yeah, it does. It does. And I think also you have a gift of making the other person feel very comfortable, and it allows them that space to be vulnerable, because I think you can ask all the deep questions. Because one of the things he said, which I wrote down, was the power of your questions dictates the power of your answer. Of the answer.

Matt Edmundson [17:06 - 17:06]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [17:06 - 17:14]: And I think you can ask all the great questions, but if the person's not willing to open up and they need that. That place to feel like they can.

Matt Edmundson [17:15 - 18:15]: So true. They need to feel like they trust you. It's an interesting question, isn't it? If you. If you can do that, if you can make people open up, then, yes, the power of your questions dictate the benefit of you or the power of your answers. I think such a great, great point, actually. So being comfortable and confident just to ask those questions can take a little bit of practice. I'm not going to lie, because it's not how we normally talk to each other. Unless you're like a counselor, in which case you're down people. I don't want to do the deep questions. Do that at work all day. What's wrong with. I just want to trivial put questions. But it's one of those where. And actually, that's a good point. Sorry, just go off on a side tangent here. Not everything has to be deep. So, for example, comedy podcasts work because of the joy and the laughter, which is ultimately an emotion. So it's an emotionally driven question. If it creates laughter.

Sadaf Beynon [18:15 - 18:16]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:16 - 18:16]: Do you see what I mean?

Sadaf Beynon [18:16 - 18:17]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:17 - 18:54]: So it's not always deep. It's not always, oh, my mum passed away. But can you make. And it's always a challenge. Can you make the person on the other side of the lens that you're talking to or the other side of the table, can you make them laugh? Right. So in Podjunction, my strategy is not to sit here and set up like, you know, what's. What's driving your emotions this week, or whatever Jimmy. And we have is, you know, whatever it is, we don't. This is not the place for those kind of conversations. But I do like to laugh, so we do have a lot of banter. Usually at your expense.

Sadaf Beynon [18:55 - 18:56]: Yes, always at my expense.

Matt Edmundson [18:58 - 19:00]: That's because you keep doing things like breaking your wrist.

Sadaf Beynon [19:00 - 19:01]: I know, I know.

Matt Edmundson [19:02 - 19:04]: You should give listeners an update.

Sadaf Beynon [19:05 - 19:06]: Still fooshed.

Matt Edmundson [19:09 - 19:17]: Everyone's like, what? Some kids in the car listening to the podcast going, fooshed. You have to listen to the last episode to understand. Understand what that means.

Sadaf Beynon [19:17 - 19:21]: Yeah. Basically fall on outstretched hand.

Matt Edmundson [19:21 - 19:21]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [19:22 - 19:22]: Which is what I did.

Matt Edmundson [19:22 - 19:23]: It is a proper medical term.

Sadaf Beynon [19:24 - 19:24]: Yes.

Matt Edmundson [19:24 - 19:25]: It's not the setup.

Sadaf Beynon [19:25 - 19:33]: Google it. And ended up with a hairline fracture and not able to drive. So that's my life right now.

Matt Edmundson [19:34 - 19:36]: It's. How does that make you feel?

Sadaf Beynon [19:36 - 19:37]: Not good.

Matt Edmundson [19:40 - 21:09]: Yeah, we could do. So, just to. I mean, just to clarify, you know, whilst we've been talking a little bit about Brett, who's a legend, and Steven, some of the stuff he shared. Emotions don't always have to be those deep, vulnerable things. It can be humor. And I think bringing emotion into it, you've got to, obviously got to make sure it's right for your environment. Like on the Ecommerce podcast I'm just trying to think. There have been a few. A few times where people have just opened up. Like, I was recording yesterday with Lucy Ting, and she just talked about how she. She was talking from a founder's point of view. And when you do founder stories, this is a great place to bring the emotion stuff out. She's like, it can be a lonely place. That's interesting. Lucy. What. Why did you say that about it? You know, and we had a great conversation, to be fair. We stopped recording and just chatted for another 40 minutes after the podcast, which was lovely, actually. And so there are times when, you know, like, ep, I can bring that out in the founder's story, but it's. It's not what eps necessarily, so I have to bring another type of emotion, whether it's excitement, whether it's joy, and understanding how you do that. So I think if I think this through, I suppose the logic point here is what's the overarching emotion that you want people to feel, either being on your podcast or listening to your podcast? What. What is that? Emotional. What are the few emotions that you want people to feel? Like? With Push, I would say I want people to feel inspired.

Sadaf Beynon [21:09 - 21:10]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [21:10 - 21:32]: And I want people to feel maybe challenged and inspired. With ep, I want people to feel encouraged, and I want them to feel like they can do this. And then. So what are the emotions you want to convey in your podcast, and how can you bring that out in the stories that people tell as you're interviewing them?

Sadaf Beynon [21:32 - 21:33]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [21:33 - 21:39]: I suppose I've never really verbalized this, but I suppose this is what we do unintentionally, isn't it?

Sadaf Beynon [21:40 - 21:40]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [21:40 - 22:05]: Do you know what I mean? But actually being intentional, what are the emotions? Remembering those and trying to bring that out. Like with Podjunction, obviously, we want you guys to feel like you can go away and do this. Empowered. Such a 1980s word. Or is it maybe more 1990s Steven Covey. I'm empowered. But also, just like I say, we like to have fun, you know, we like it to feel chilled out.

Sadaf Beynon [22:05 - 22:05]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:05 - 22:09]: Pretty easygoing. Hence the reason we just banter a lot.

Sadaf Beynon [22:09 - 22:16]: And I think it also makes that particular guest that you're talking to, it makes their story memorable.

Matt Edmundson [22:16 - 22:16]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [22:17 - 22:32]: As well. So it's not just to keep them engaged and connected for that episode. It's to keep them on. On people's radar and, you know, get them to reach out to them themselves or whatever. It is the call to action.

Matt Edmundson [22:33 - 22:42]: But, yeah, that's super true, actually, because we. We've been talking about this from the point of view of the listener, but there's also the point of view of your guest.

Sadaf Beynon [22:42 - 22:42]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:42 - 23:36]: Which is what you're alluding to here, isn't it, actually. How does your guest feel when the recordings ended? They've hung up or they've left the studio. When they think back to that conversation, to that interview, how did. How did they feel? And that has. I think that my observation is the better they feel. Yeah, whatever better means, the more likely they are to stay connected with you, to refer you, to share you out. It's. There seems to be a direct correlation. Right. So. Which is an obvious statement when you think about it. So the benefits then of making the guest feel something is incredibly important. So what emotions do you want the guest to feel? That's a really interesting question. So how do we want, say, push to be more guest to feel?

Sadaf Beynon [23:37 - 24:06]: I think we've actually touched on it without putting, like, in this context, but, you know, was it Chris George, you said, said to you that in the first 30 minutes he's told you stuff he hasn't told his closest friends, and it's that place where you've allowed him to feel safe and like, you know that. Trust building. Yeah, that. I mean, granted, you guys do know each other from a different podcast, so it wasn't like the first. First conversation, but I think trust building is probably a big. Yeah, a big thing there.

Matt Edmundson [24:06 - 24:11]: Very much so. You want the guests to feel like they can trust you and that they're safe.

Sadaf Beynon [24:11 - 24:12]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [24:13 - 24:20]: These are words I think I've never heard anybody say. Oh, Matt, I felt really safe with you when I've been doing a podcast.

Sadaf Beynon [24:21 - 24:51]: No, but as like, you were talking about, you know, you like to have a laugh, you like to banter, and you do that on your podcast. But you're also, as you said yourself, you like to ask the deeper questions and you go below the surface quite a bit too. So I think that as a package is quite nice because you kind of. You're kind of showing or representing A full person. So the. The guest is not just like, oh, this happened in my life, and that's it. You kind of get a full picture of. Of the guest.

Matt Edmundson [24:51 - 24:51]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [24:51 - 24:54]: And I think that helps the guest feel like they're actually being seen.

Matt Edmundson [24:54 - 24:55]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [24:55 - 25:01]: And it helps the listener better see them, you know, like, better connect with them.

Matt Edmundson [25:01 - 26:12]: Yeah. It's so true, isn't it? It's so true. And I. I think it's. It's. It's one of those things. How do you tell you're doing a good job? You can obviously measure the comments at the end of the interview, but as you're going through, you can tell from body language. I think you can tell by how willing people are to go deeper. And this is where there's. As this real tension occurs. I think when you're interviewing people, if you are pushing on something that's sensitive, like, you know, your mum passed away or you had infidelity in your marriage or whatever it was. Right. There's this real tent, this fine line that I don't know how to explain to you other than you just practice and you just get to know is how far can I push? And I think reading the person in front of you and understanding where they're at is critical. So if you've pushed a little bit and they've not really responded, then pushing more is probably not going to be that helpful. But if you. If you can lead them, if you push a little bit, they answer that, then you can push a little bit more, maybe until you think, actually, I don't want to put them in an uncomfortable position. I think you just sense that. And that's just life experience.

Sadaf Beynon [26:13 - 26:20]: Yeah, yeah. Or you can also preface your question with if you're happy to or if you feel. If you feel comfortable, that kind of a thing.

Matt Edmundson [26:20 - 27:01]: Yeah. Please, please let us know. And I think some of the things that were. So. I always look at body language, I look at eye contact, how easy they are sat in the chair, if they're all tense or if they're kind of relaxed. What's the person in front of me feeling right now? I'm not very emotionally aware of people in front of me, but I do try, especially when I'm doing an interview. You know, you're constantly thinking about these things and there are a few tells. Right. So, for example, if they stop and look up and go, it's like you've. It's like, oh, I actually want to think about this question, Jamie. I don't just want it. That's usually A good tell. Or if they. And sometimes they'll actually say, ah, that's a really good question.

Sadaf Beynon [27:01 - 27:02]: Haven't thought about that before.

Matt Edmundson [27:02 - 27:13]: Yeah. And. And that's when you kind of go, right, this is going to be a really interesting guest. Because they like interesting questions. They like to sit and think about the answers. And you're like, okay.

Sadaf Beynon [27:13 - 27:16]: Yeah. And I think it relaxes you as a host too, right?

Matt Edmundson [27:16 - 27:47]: Yeah, it does. I always look out for little things like that, little tales that people have, the way they sit, the words they use. And being comfortable with silence is a big one because I always think I can cut out silence, but I don't think we ever have. But I remember I asked Lucy a question yesterday. I can't actually remember what the question was on the podcast recording, but I remember her thinking about it for like three or four seconds. And I'm okay with that. I don't need to fill that void.

Sadaf Beynon [27:48 - 27:48]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [27:48 - 28:03]: And I think sometimes as an interviewer, you're constantly thinking, what's going on? A bit long. We don't like silence. And so you will then feel that silence. You'll feel. And actually, if you just leave it another second or two, you'll find there's some real gold. Then that comes.

Sadaf Beynon [28:03 - 28:04]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [28:04 - 28:35]: And just looking at the camera and just nodding slightly like, I'm okay with this silence. But you just. You're either going to tell me you don't want to answer the question, or actually, something great is going to come out of you. And I'm okay with that. I think that's another lesson we've learned. Be quiet, just ask the question, sit back and let them answer rather than just peppering them with questions. And then finally, I'd probably say the only other thing that I can think of in all of this is the quality of your questions. So what was that quote from Steven?

Sadaf Beynon [28:36 - 28:40]: The power of your question dictates the power of the answer.

Matt Edmundson [28:40 - 28:56]: Okay. One of the great ways that you can do this, if you, for example, are doing a podcast that is inspirational, bit like push, we want people to feel inspired. We quickly realize with that show that the tone for the podcast is set by the very first question we ask.

Sadaf Beynon [28:56 - 28:57]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [28:57 - 29:27]: Whereas with ep, the Ecommerce podcast which I host, which doesn't need to go to that kind of depth unless I'm with a founder. But that tends to be small talk. Right. Like, where are you? What's the weather? How did you end up in the job that you're in? Just get them talking for a few minutes and then you're off and running. But with Push, we're very, very intentional with that first quote. Maybe we should be with ep, but with Push, it's like, actually by setting out a really great first question, it sets the tone for the rest of the podcast.

Sadaf Beynon [29:28 - 29:28]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [29:28 - 29:49]: And we've talked about this before on the show. That actually the question. It's the only question we tell our guests ahead of time that we're going to ask, because the rest of it's conversational. And we always start off the podcast in exactly the same way. If you had your own podcast and you could have a guest on the show from your past or your present who's been a big influence on your life, who would you have and why?

Sadaf Beynon [29:49 - 29:50]: Yeah, right.

Matt Edmundson [29:50 - 30:27]: And the answer is always an emotional one, because these. Whoever they say has had a big impact on them. That's the whole point of that question. Yeah, it's like. And whoever they say. And we've had people, like I said before, you know, they've mentioned people like Dolly Parton. Which part of you kind of thinks, why Dolly? I mean, I like Dolly. I like her music usually, and, you know, it's fine, but I don't know if she'd be on my list. But for that person, obviously Dolly Parton is a really important person and has really impacted them. And so my job is not to judge. My job is to ask why and to. And that totally sets the tone for the rest of the conversation.

Sadaf Beynon [30:27 - 30:35]: Yeah. And, you know, when. When I do the pre. Calls for Push to be more. And I tell them about that, their eyes light up. They really. They really like that part.

Matt Edmundson [30:35 - 30:41]: Yeah, because people want to brag about people that have been a big influence in them or for them.

Sadaf Beynon [30:41 - 30:41]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [30:41 - 31:47]: It's like, oh, this is great. I get to talk about so and so. It's not a question people normally ask. And again, if I was down the pub and I walked up to you and said, hi, my name is Matt. Let me ask you a question. If you could have anybody as a guest on a podcast, who would it be and why? You'd look at me like I was about half crazy, but. And you'd probably be right. But it's one of those where you kind of think it's not working in that environment, but in the podcast environment. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, you get. You get so many great things. So, yeah, the first question, the quality of your question, if you're doing those inspirational podcasts where you want people to go a little bit deeper, it really does set the tone. So think that through in such a way that makes a massive. Makes sense for your show, but just instantly puts a guest at ease. And then they can start talking about something that's familiar and it will bring out that emotional story. And you're just going to learn how to dig deeper in that. I think that's super, super important. And I suppose if you want to bring humor. If I wanted to bring humor to the Ecommerce podcast I should start off by saying, so what's the most stupid thing you've done in e commerce? Just get it out there.

Sadaf Beynon [31:47 - 31:48]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [31:50 - 31:56]: You're an expert in email marketing. What's the most stupid thing you've done in email marketing? I might try this. I might think about this question.

Sadaf Beynon [31:58 - 32:01]: You'll be laughing at your guest and they'll be signing off.

Matt Edmundson [32:02 - 32:26]: You're making me look stupid. I'm just making you look human, dude. That's what I'm gonna do. Maybe we should have a chat about what the first question should be for episode. And so then finally, how. Doing research on your guest before the interview helps you ask better questions. In one sense, that's a really obvious statement, but it is a. It is a really important point.

Sadaf Beynon [32:26 - 32:36]: It is. Yeah. Especially when you get people who are wanting to be on different podcasts for whatever reason. You kind of. If you've listened to one episode, you've listened to them all.

Matt Edmundson [32:36 - 32:37]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [32:37 - 32:40]: So you really. It's really important, I think, to find a different angle.

Matt Edmundson [32:41 - 36:45]: It is, because you don't. Here's the thing, right? We could. Brett Curry will have been on thousands and maybe hundreds. I don't know. He's going to have gone on a lot of podcasts, and so I can ask him the same questions everybody else asks him. How do you get started? You know, how's the business now? Blah, blah, blah. And it means that if somebody wants to find out more about Brett Curry and they go to my podcast same as everybody else, and I'm not trying to be different for the sake of being different. What I'm trying to do is make it interesting for Brett because I want Bret way about being on my podcast. I want him to come away and go, you know what? That has never. That's really intriguing. So Nathan Hirsch, right, He's been on the Ecommerce podcast He has written, like, some, like a mini course on how he gets onto podcasts. And he's been. He's got himself on over a thousand podcasts. He's been a guest on over a thousand shows. And if you go and ask Nathan, what are the five standout shows you remember, because again, for him, you want him to feel a certain way. And it just so happened when he came onto ep, I didn't want Nathan just to think, I'm just doing. I don't think Nathan would, but I didn't want him to in his head, just to go through the ropes, Jeremy. And I'm sort of the show. And it was a beautiful thing because I. I did a bit of research on Nathan when he. When he was coming on the show, and I say better research, like 10 minutes before the conversation. I'm not, you know, I'm not OCD about this. Found out that he or that he delivered services or his company worked for a guy called Jared Mitchell, who had also been on the podcast and who's also a friend of mine. So I sent a text message to Jared saying, jared, I'm just about to interview Nathan. What questions would you ask him? And takes me back. That guy's such a legend. But I've never actually met him. He's been doing stuff with us for years, but I've never met. I'm like, you've never had a zoom call? He's like, no, no, no. It's just emails and stuff. I'm like, are you serious? He's like, yeah. I'm like, right, how do you feel about coming on the podcast? And so we did this show. I mean, it was all last minute, all arranged in the last few minutes, and Nathan turned up and I said, nathan, I've had this crazy idea. I want to know what you think. And he's like, oh, that would be really cool. And so he's like, this is the first time that's ever happened. So our conversation, our interview, out of the thousands, will stick out in his mind now, right? And so we had Jared on and we made it work, and it was a really fun time, and it was a really interesting way of doing it. Would I do it every episode? No, because it was. But for that time, it worked. And that all came out with the research. Fast forward Nathan and I in touch on WhatsApp. We're in some WhatsApp groups where we post links and we comment and share each other's stuff. So, you know, we've. It's great. You know, he posted something the other day, picture of him and his wife. And I think he made a comment about, you know, people keep asking me, did I marry my va because she's from Vietnam. And so I think people just assume she's from the Philippines because he does this whole thing about hiring VAs from the Philippines. Right. It's one of his companies. And if you ever want to do that, go talk to Nathan because he's a genius at it. But. So, people, did you marry your va? Which I think is quite a rude question in many ways. And so he was talking about that on Instagram, and I just wrote, on Instagram, Yeah, but you're still punching. And, you know, and it's just those kind of things which become memorable. And I can do that with Nathan because of the way the interview was just what I mean. And so, yeah, I think there's. There's a really great. There's a real great truth in this. Do the research. Yeah. And just try and, like, just try and just be a bit different. Ask questions maybe other people wouldn't ask, which is usually when you. You'll see when you do it, because, like I say, they stop and they think, well, no one's asked me this question before. That's a really. That's a really interesting question. And ask it from different points of view.

Sadaf Beynon [36:45 - 36:46]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [36:46 - 37:39]: Like, I think with Steven, I think he was on the podcast, and I can't remember, I may have got this entirely wrong, but I think he was on the podcast and he was talking about his business, and I was. I was asking a question from. I think it was either his mum or his wife's point of view as opposed to his. And it's like, no one's ever actually asked me that. And I think it was Steven at the end who said, no one has ever. He said, no one's ever thought to think about it the way that you did. And he said, I find that really fascinating. So thank you for asking those questions. And forgive me, Stephen, if I got the actual question wrong. All blurs in my head. But the bottom line is create these emotional experiences that your guests remember, and you can do that by asking right questions. And you can get some really good questions if you do the research. I think that just summarizes very aptly what I've just rabbited on about for the last 20 minutes.

Sadaf Beynon [37:39 - 37:42]: Thanks, Matt, for summarizing that. For those who fell asleep.

Matt Edmundson [37:45 - 37:48]: Sorry, I went off on Monday. I just think it's such a good topic.

Sadaf Beynon [37:48 - 37:49]: No, it is good.

Matt Edmundson [37:49 - 37:53]: I think it's a really good topic. We can talk about this for a long time. But, yeah, I thought that was really good.

Sadaf Beynon [37:53 - 37:54]: Cool.

Matt Edmundson [37:54 - 37:55]: So what's happening next?

Sadaf Beynon [37:56 - 38:03]: Steven again next week, and he is talking about building authentic relationships. So a little bit continuing on this.

Matt Edmundson [38:03 - 38:09]: Oh, it's gonna go deeper. I wanna Go deeper. But I don't know how to. I'm gonna stop singing now.

Sadaf Beynon [38:09 - 38:09]: Yes.

Matt Edmundson [38:09 - 38:19]: Thanks. I was singing in the office earlier, wasn't I? I was doing something. Play music, and you just slammed your coffee cup down on the desk.

Sadaf Beynon [38:19 - 38:21]: Shock you out of it.

Matt Edmundson [38:21 - 38:21]: And.

Steven Pemberton [38:21 - 38:21]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [38:21 - 38:37]: And I'm like, whoa, okay, anger issues. What's going on there? And actually, it's because you've got dodgy wrists. There's nothing to do with me. But you're like. It's just. I wanted you to stop singing. Fair play. That's how it rolled in this place, let me tell you.

Sadaf Beynon [38:37 - 38:37]: Yep.

Matt Edmundson [38:38 - 38:53]: But listen, thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully you got something out of this, and if you didn't, I'm really sorry. But if you did, that's awesome, too. Let us know. It'd be great to hear from you. Do connect with us on social media. You can find the Podjunction Instagram at the Podjunction podcast.

Sadaf Beynon [38:54 - 38:54]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [38:54 - 38:55]: Is that right? Did I get that right?

Sadaf Beynon [38:56 - 38:57]: No. Podjunction Podcast.

Matt Edmundson [38:57 - 38:58]: Podjunction.

Sadaf Beynon [38:58 - 38:58]: We dropped the.

Matt Edmundson [38:59 - 39:00]: We dropped the. The. The.

Sadaf Beynon [39:00 - 39:00]: Yeah, the.

Matt Edmundson [39:00 - 39:08]: The. Yeah, okay. Just. Podjunction Podcast. Just come along, Say how's it? Or find me at Edmundson or your.

Sadaf Beynon [39:08 - 39:10]: I am Sadaf Beynon.

Matt Edmundson [39:10 - 39:28]: I know you are, but what's your Instagram handle? Hey. Oh. So you'll find Sadaf at I am Sadaf Baynon on Instagram. Be great to connect with you. Great to hear from you. Thank you so much for joining us this week. I think that's it for me. Is there anything else from you?

Sadaf Beynon [39:28 - 39:29]: No.

Matt Edmundson [39:29 - 39:32]: Awesome. Have a great week, guys. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon [39:36 - 40:10]: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction, where you'll find more information about how you can join Pod Junction cohort. Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.