How Strong Opinions Shape Successful Podcasts | Matthew Holman

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome back to Pod Junction podcast, where podcasters learn to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon and with me is Max Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson: Everyone's gonna start calling me Max now. We should put the thing on the screen which says Max Edmundson. Hang on, where's it? Let's do the. There we go. I should fix that. Definitely. So welcome to the show. Great that you're. Happy New Year.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes. Happy New Year.

Matt Edmundson: Full disclosure, we're recording this in November, so it just feels really weird as.

Sadaf Beynon: We did a few weeks ago.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. But Sadaf said to me, she said, listen, this one's going out. This is the first one in the new year. So make sure you say happy New Year. So Happy New Year. I hope genuinely when this comes out. Hopefully the new year. Hopefully it's happening. And hopefully, you know, you've had a good start to the year and a Merry Christmas.

Sadaf Beynon: Because we forgot to say that in the last one.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. So just go back to the last one. Just pretend we said Merry Christmas in.

Sadaf Beynon: The podcast and that we'll see you in the new year.

Matt Edmundson: And we'll see you. Yeah. Which is. And we should start doing this. Actually, this is an interesting point, is understanding when the episodes are going to come out, because I never ever know when our episodes are coming out. So when I'm recording the podcast with a guest, I just. It's coming out in the future. That's as much as I. I mean, it's an obvious statement to make, but I don't know. And so never on EP do I say things like happy Christmas. But what I've noticed, like on one of them from last year, I was wearing my Christmas jumper.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: When I was recording the podcast, which came out and like May, I'm like.

Sadaf Beynon: That might have been a part Junction one, maybe.

Matt Edmundson: I don't know.

Sadaf Beynon: I mean, a push to be more one.

Matt Edmundson: It's. It's memo self. Don't wear Christmas jumpers when recording podcasts that come out in May.

Sadaf Beynon: You date them.

Matt Edmundson: I have to start wearing Christmas jumpers in August when I'm recording a podcast because we're usually like three or four months in advance. But yeah, it's. I. I know we need to get into the clip in a minute, but it's just a really interesting point, isn't it? So. And just planning that and being that advanced, it's just not our style. So it's a miracle we've said Happy New Year. Really?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Just in time.

Matt Edmundson: Just in time. Yeah. Yeah. Happy New Year. So what we got coming.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So we've got here the very first episode in 2025 is with Matthew Holman.

Sadaf Beynon: And actually it's a continuation of 2024 where we had.

Matt Edmundson: That was so last year.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, so last year. But we had a couple segments from Matthew Holman in, well, last year, half an hour ago. And. Yeah. So Matthew Holman is the podcast host of Subscription Prescription.

Matt Edmundson: You didn't close your eyes.

Sadaf Beynon: I didn't.

Matt Edmundson: Well done.

Sadaf Beynon: And in this particular clip, he's talking about the importance of having a clear perspective and opinion when it comes to your content and your podcast.

Matt Edmundson: Very good, Very good. So shall we play the clip?

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, we should.

Matt Edmundson: And then we'll be back after this.

Sadaf Beynon: So here's the clip and the topics that you choose when you're flying solo. Do you base those on the questions that have been coming in? How do you do that one?

Matthew Holman: Yeah, that one's kind of more like, you know, pulse of the. Of the. Of the space. Like, I was talking to a potential lead and they were telling me about how, like, their subscription software partner was telling them they needed to do XYZ in their business. And I was like, wait, what? No, no, no, no, no. So let's do an episode about why your subscription software partner should really be an advisor, not directing strategy. They help on the tactic side of things, not the strategy side. And so that was actually like this week's episode that came out, or when I'm seeing something really interesting or something work on the acquisition side. Like, let's do. Let's do an episode talking about acquisition or, you know, we haven't talked about the fundamentals of different email strategy in a while. So let's. Let's talk about that. So. So it is a little bit of, like, you know, what I see getting asked online, what I come and run into with prospects and people that are just trying to pick my brain, what I get from clients, and then also what I talk with about. With, like, other experts, because there are other subscription experts out there. If we're just chatting about stuff, it's like, oh, yeah, we should do an episode that would be fun to talk about that again, or something like that. So there's a lot of. It's just like listening and just trying to track down ideas, which I don't think is too hard.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I can understand. Especially if you've got people that you're already having conversations with that are in that. In that space.

Matthew Holman: I would add and say that I think what's really important with content is to have. And if you've been only half listening. Maybe tune in to this part, because I think this is really, really important. Especially like we just had the election in the US Just happened like yesterday. And you have to have a perspective. You have to have an opinion. And it often helps to have an enemy. Right. So I have a friend's company out here called Luminous. They sell inventory management software and they're going against netsuite, who's the big incumbent. So a lot of their early content strategy was attacking netsuite and why it's bad for businesses of certain sizes. And so for us in subscriptions, our perspective is that. That subscriptions are often an afterthought. They're often run by junior level people in the company. A lot of resources are spent on the acquisition side, not on the retention side. And that they're often forgotten. And that most people obsess over the back end of subscriptions, not realizing that subscription strategy starts with how you acquire a customer in the first place. So those are our perspectives, our opinions. And so we regularly will bring up that perspective and bring up that opinion. And if we're looking for topics, topics, we will look at those opinion pieces. And so if you don't have a strong opinion, then you're. Then you don't give people a reason to want to listen to you. It's just something interesting, maybe, but it also is like part of the sales process. So there's a little bit of sophistication here. It's like, hey, I know that a lot of brands are doing this, are operating this way, and we work with brands that operate this way. So I'm going to harp on brands that operate this way because I want them to go, yeah, that's me. How can you help us? And so that's kind of like that idea of why you need to have an opinion in your content strategy and your podcasting, regardless of the space you're in, the industry you're in, you know, even if you're just doing a podcast for crocheting, like, it's really important to have a perspective and strong opinions about at least some parts of crocheting. Otherwise, like, you'll just be another podcast out there that nobody thinks is relevant.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm. So you're saying to have an opinion and put that stake in the ground.

Matthew Holman: Yes, absolutely.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matthew Holman: And that's why I mentioned the u. S. Election. Like, you know, love him or hate him, Donald Trump is amazing at that. He has really strong opinions that are very divisive. But if you agree with him, you really agree with them. So, yeah, you don't have to be that extreme, but you need to have opinions.

Sadaf Beynon: But you need to have an opinion what you're doing.

Matt Edmundson: Right.

Matthew Holman: Because otherwise it's like, why should somebody talk to you? Why should somebody buy from you? Right. Again, if you're in automotive and you're complaining about the amount of time it takes to get an oil change. Okay. Well, you're trying to reach people who think that oil changes take too long so that they'll come out to your business to get an oil change. Like, that's, It's. You just have to think through why, why that opinion needs to be there.

Sadaf Beynon: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson: So welcome back. Have you got an opinion about this?

Sadaf Beynon: My opinion is that I really, really liked what he said. I think we have. I don't think we have enough people who have a strong opinion about something.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, you don't think we have enough. Yeah, I want more strong opinions.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think, I think it's great when people make a stance.

Matt Edmundson: Okay.

Sadaf Beynon: I think too many times we're too bothered about offending. I mean, I'm not saying make a stance and, you know, like, be rude and disrespectful to people. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's good to have an opinion.

Matt Edmundson: Well, I, I.

Sadaf Beynon: What do you think?

Matt Edmundson: I totally agree. I. And I think it's a very interesting thing, isn't it, that Matthew was talking about in the sense that if you, if you don't have an opinion, then what differentiates you from everybody else out there? What differentiates you from all the noise, from all the comments? It's hard, isn't it? And, and I think, I think actually having an opinion doesn't. I mean, you know, he gave the example of Trump, which takes it to a massive extreme, doesn't it? Yeah. In terms of contentiousness, I don't think that's what Matthew's saying, but I think you do have to stand for something, otherwise you just become a bit beige, really. And you do have to have an opinion.

Sadaf Beynon: I think this is different from having an opinion on everything.

Matt Edmundson: Well, I'm just thinking of that, that phrase in my, in my head, that phrase. I hope there's no children listening to the podcast right now. You know, opinions, like, aren't they. Because everyone's got one, and it's like, it's one of those where you're kind of like, having an opinion is good. And actually this is really important because this, this is what distinguishes you because that's your brand voice. That's what makes you unique. That's why you're here. Having an opinion in content is good, what you stand for is good. And being really clear on that, I think is super helpful. Understanding your values, your, you know, and, and connecting your values, your purpose with that opinion makes a whole great deal of sense to me. I can understand the, that I can get my head around brand voice and all those kind. So I think it's a really good thing to do. The outworking of that is a little bit more nuanced because I think, like, if I think about E commerce podcast or even push, you know, the, the push to be more podcasts, which we host now, which is about leadership, it's easy to have opinions about leadership. Right. And it's easy to have opinions around topics like, I don't know, how do you get the best out of people? I have an opinion on this. Right. I'm not the world's greatest expert, but I have an opinion and I think talking from that viewpoint is good in E commerce. I have opinions on how to make E commerce work and how to make it profitable. So I'm just trying to rack my brain. I've never had a guest on the show where I've gone, oh, I don't agree with it, that doesn't make sense. But I have had guests on the show where I've gone, hang on a minute, hey, just rewind. Just explain that a little bit further to me. And so outworking those opinions is quite nuanced, isn't it? It's quite, it's quite unique. And I think as a podcast host, you fall into one or two camps. The camp which says, well, a guest is going to come on the show and whatever they say is what they say. And if I don't agree with it, if I don't like it, I'll kind of move around it or I'll move on, or a guest is going to come on the show, they're going to say something and I'm going to go, let's dig into that. And I think they're probably the more interesting conversations. Yeah, but even if you're just doing a podcast where it's just, you just, you know, you're a solo podcast where it's just you, I think it's easier to have an opinion then because you're, you're giving that opinion. Yeah. But I think in a world of Social media, where opinions are everywhere in 140 characters.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I think we probably come a little bit shy of saying what we think for fear of recrimination at some point in the future.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. But if you were to scale back, what you've said was all very good. Thank you, man. But if you scale back, like, I.

Matt Edmundson: Still got a job.

Sadaf Beynon: I was like, well, we, we are, we are taking a stand. We think podcasting is a great way to grow your business.

Matt Edmundson: That's our belief.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, that's our belief. Right. So we come at our conversations, our segments, everything that we do here with, from that standpoint. And I think that also, that also informs our sales cycle at the later on as well. Because if, if that resonates with somebody than that. Do you know what I mean? It kind of. It's a knock on effect.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: So it's not necessarily. That's what, like, you don't have to have an opinion on every little thing or a strong opinion on every little thing. But I think from our, like from what we're doing here or what you're doing as a podcaster, because he didn't say something about crocheting, like, whatever it is you're doing.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: You need to have an opinion. You need to have an angle that you're coming from, because that perspective then helps you create that content around that perspective and brings people closer.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. And in some respects it's a common sense thing to say, right. That we believe podcasting is a great way to help grow your business, otherwise we wouldn't invest the time and energy and money into the show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so we do hold that belief and we talk about that and we get guests on the show that in effect hold the same belief. What we haven't done. And, and I've not really thought it through, actually. Just thinking through some of the things. We've never had anybody come on the show and go, actually, you're, you're utterly wrong because of. And I think that would be quite an interesting conversation. Right. To invite people that have different opinions to me. And being able to have those robust conversations, I think is quite interesting. I think probably one thing that is worth saying here is I think you have to choose carefully the opinions that you have on your podcast right now. What do I mean by this? So this podcast, we talk about podcasting and business. So I have opinions about podcasting, I have opinions about business, I have opinions about social media, I have opinions about guests, and we talk about that on this show. What I don't do is I don't talk about my opinions on modern day feminism.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Right. Because I may have opinions about that. It may be a contentious issue. Is J.K. o'Reilly right or is she wrong? You know, we can get into those, but this is not the platform. This is not the place for me to bring those opinions. Opinions talk properly. And so I think it is good to have an opinion and I think it's understanding what opinions you need to bring into that show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: That make the most sense. So, for example, you and I would hold a Christian worldview. Right. You go to a different church to me, but we're both church goers.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: My church is better, but that's okay. It's my opinion. But again, that's not something that, I mean, it's not something that we would talk about in the context of this show. Now, if a guest came on who was doing, say, I don't know, like an atheist podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Which would be great, by the way. And I'd be kind of like, well, that's interesting. I might challenge some of the things that they say because that is the opposite of my opinion. Right.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So I'm not, I'm not afraid to bring that when I need to. But in the, in this context, it's not something that I'm regularly going to go, well, church the shot diary. Because it's like, well, people don't necessarily want to know. That's not why they're tuning in.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So having the place for the opinion, I think is. Is a understanding what the opinions are that you need to bring.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I think is super important. But that said, I think I don't have an issue with people who use, say, something like church as a point of differentiation.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: So I might do a leadership podcast, but I could differentiate that more by saying, let's do a leadership podcast from a Christian worldview. What does that look? So, okay, I'm now niching that down. Right. So because I'm niching that down, I'm targeting that audience, I can then say, right, well, as a Christian, it would make sense, but in the context of what we're talking about here, it would. You see what I mean? And so having an opinion is entirely the right thing to do. But it is also my opinion that not every opinion really matters on your show. So choosing the opinions that you have, I think is. Is super, super important.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Does that make sense? It does, because I think people hear the word opinion at the moment and it almost feels like a dangerous word to say. It's quite contentious in many ways, but I don't think, I don't think it's true. I think we all genuinely have opinions and I think we have a viewpoint on the topic matter that we're talking about. So let's go for that, you know, and don't be afraid to stand up for it. Yeah, in a good way, you know, and actually invite that robust discussion which says, let's get people that don't have that opinion onto the show and let's chat with them and see where it goes. Because I think that would be quite fascinating.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: The anti opinion.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, I agree. I think if you don't. If you don't stand out, then you're quite vanilla, aren't you? You're just another show.

Matt Edmundson: You are. And yet. And people forget you very quickly.

Sadaf Beynon: And if you want the trust of your audience, if you want them to come and align themselves with you, then you have to make a. Make a strong point. What did you think of when he said you have to have an opinion and it helps to have an enemy?

Matt Edmundson: I think I would 100% agree that that makes a lot of sense. Right. So I think storytelling is. Is one of those things that as podcasters, we in theory get better at doing. Right. Understand what's the story. So even in e commerce, my job as the interviewer is to understand the story and to bring the story. That's going to help the listener. Right. Well, every story has what has three acts, beginning, middle, and end. It has a protagonist, it has an antagonist. It has the good guy has the bad guy. It has conflict, it has drama. Otherwise it's not a story and it's just really boring and dull. And imagine if Star wars, if Darth Vader wasn't in Star wars, it's kind of like. Well, that doesn't make any kind of sense. Do you know what I mean? You need the. You need the emperor, you need Darth Vader. And I think understanding who your enemy is is really important. Now it could be a person. So if I was doing a political podcast, for example, an American political podcast, then either Trump would be my enemy or Kamala would be my enemy. Right. And you see this a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And that's. That's an easy enemy to pick because they are the exact opposite to me, I think in podcasting for business, what's the enemy? What? I can't think of a single person that I could go, you're my enemy right now. But I can think of things which stop people being successful in this. Right. And so I can paint them into being the enemy. So, for example, I. For me, I. From what I hear, you know, one of the biggest problems people have with podcasting is, say, a technical knowledge. They feel like they don't have enough technical knowledge to be able to pull it off. And so that fear would be the bad guy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yep.

Matt Edmundson: Right. And you can. You can label that as the bad guy in the story, because I think every hero, and we all paint ourselves to be the hero, don't we? We. The way a hero does well is he overcomes the enemy and he defeats the enemy. So if you're not doing a podcast because of fear of technology, then in your story, you overcome that and the podcast works well.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And. And you've slayed the dragon. Right. And so, yeah, I think it's. I think it's a very true point. Identifying who the enemy is just.

Sadaf Beynon: And that can change.

Matt Edmundson: It can change, and it'll be different for different people. Right. And. But I think clever marketing is all about identifying the enemy and giving the person you're marketing to the tools to overcome that enemy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Right.

Sadaf Beynon: So when you're podcasting, so say something like, what we're doing, our enemy would be a competitor. No.

Matt Edmundson: Yes and no. I think I'm not too worried about my competition.

Sadaf Beynon: So. Sorry, can I interrupt then? So it's not necessarily the enemy, then, is basically what you perceive to be the enemy? Is that what you're saying? So it's not necessarily all. Everyone else out there who's competing against the space that I'm in or competing in the space that I'm also in is not a natural. Com like enemy?

Matt Edmundson: No, I think it's. I think it could be. But again, it's. So for, like an e commerce, we. We have this phrase that I've coined, Digital Davids.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Right. You've heard me talk about this. I have written the Digital David Manifesto. It's on the website if you ever want to read it. Talking about how we are the Digital Davids and we face the glass, we face the enemies. Is off the biblical story of David and Goliath. Right. And if you've not read Malcolm Gladwell's book David and Goliath, strongly recommend you read this phenomenal book all about, you know, the underdog overcoming. And so I pit. Everybody listens to my show. Everyone that connects with me. I. I say that we are the Digital Davids and we are fighting Goliath. Who do I identify as Goliath? The people that I identify as Goliath. For our podcast listeners are companies like Amazon and Walmart, the massive companies with the deep pockets and the race to bottom discounts that don't give a flying flip about the little guy. Right? Regardless of what the Amazon adverts tell you, they just don't care. Right. And so how do we as the David, overcome this colossal giant, Amazon? And so for a lot of e commerce entrepreneurs, it's kind of like there's two people. We're turning over half a million, right? Amazon, 50% of all online transactions. They are a massive beast. They don't care. I can't get through to customer service, they don't care about me. And frankly, I don't really care about them. And it's. So how do we overcome them? So our whole ethos then is to give you the tools on how to beat Amazon, how to get out of that game and how to do that well, so we identify that enemy on a regular basis because it's all something that's quite common. Now, each person listening to the podcast is going to have different enemies to overcome. Some it may be debt, some it may be supply issues, some it may be marketing issues, whatever it is, you know, but there's all this, this brand band of brothers thing around the. We're the little guy taking on the big guy. And I think I, I just don't see that in this space right now. Spotify came out and said, right, we're going to start doing this service for businesses. And he's like, hang on a minute, that's pretty much what we're doing. Then I would be like, so actually what they're wanting to do is to get rid of all the little agency guys.

Sadaf Beynon: Did you mean Shopify?

Matt Edmundson: No, Spotify. Spotify, yeah, for podcasts.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay, all right, keep up. Okay, okay. Just checking, because I know you like to get those confused.

Matt Edmundson: I do get them confused. I just get confused full stop. So I think I, I then got a bigger guy that I can identify as an enemy. The problem I have with making my competitor my enemy is that they're a competitor, not really an enemy. You know, they may be a similar sized company.

Sadaf Beynon: It's like, well, but doesn't it give you something to work against?

Matt Edmundson: Yes, it does.

Sadaf Beynon: You know what I mean? It gives you that, it gives you that drive.

Matt Edmundson: It does. It gives you that drive. Because like I said, we all want to beat the enemy. I do have a bit of an issue where you identify a person as an enemy.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: Like, Amazon is a faceless organization.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: To me, right it's just a boardroom of collective suit wearers who make horrific decisions. Some good, some bad. I mean, you know, I'm not totally anti Amazon, but if I said, oh, David down the road is my enemy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, it's a difference.

Matt Edmundson: Because then there's a fine line between slander. I mean, you can. The thing that I. I've. I've noticed is some people do this with. They. They do it in a collaborative way. Okay, so take Hugh Jackman and Ryle Reynolds. For the longest time, they were just, like, coming across in social media as, like, these enemies of each other, obviously completely staged. Obviously. Very funny.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And it worked very well for both of them to build their brand. And then Deadpool 2 comes out and it's an instant. Or Deadpool 406, whatever. It's an instant smash. Right. So. And they're obviously really good friends. And so you can sort of create this collaborative enemy. I'm thinking, like, with Vegetology, one of the. The brands that we have for one of the E. Com companies, I. I do perceive some of the other companies to be our enemy, if that makes sense. It's like, what, we have to beat them. Yeah, but it's a company and it's.

Sadaf Beynon: It's not a person.

Matt Edmundson: It's not a person, as you say.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So I'm not thinking of the head of that company, who I'm sure is a lovely person. I've never met them, but I do want to destroy them.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah. You know, but you're not. When you're referring to your competitor, you're not talking about the name, the person. You're talking about the brand.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, exactly. And so I think it's really good for you as a podcaster, growing your business to understand who your enemy is, because I think you have to. And this is where your opinion actually bringing the two things together is really important. So how do we overcome that common enemy? That's where my opinion is. That's where I. I have these sort of direct statements.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think anything that comes against that I can question or I can bring into some form of disrepute. Maybe. I don't know, but it's. It's one of those things that I just love the whole idea of it. And I think identify your enemy, have some opinions on how to overcome that enemy. Make sure that enemy is shared amongst your audience in a way that makes sense for them. So if I was doing the Crochet podcast, I guess my enemy would be knitters. I don't know I obviously don't crochet. My daughter does very well. But she knits and she crochets. Crochets. But it's like what would, what is the, what would be a fun Enemy? You know, like I'm a, I, I again, it's not something I normally talk about on the podcast, but both you and I, Liverpool Football Club supporters. Well, enemy's Man United Sports, as always, has been as long as I've been a Liverpool fan. If you're a Liverpool fan, you're not a Man United fan to the point where, and it's not I have anything against obviously Man United fans. I have some friends who support Man United and I, I just give them grief every time I see them and vice versa. Right. But it's got to the point now where we, we play on the, the fantasy league, so we've got one in the company. None of the Liverpool fans will ever have a manufacture, no matter how much sense it makes.

Sadaf Beynon: Just don't do it.

Matt Edmundson: And so. Yeah, but I, I think when you can identify that you are. You affiliate with a tribe. Right. So I'm in the tribe of Liverpool Football Club fans and the Enemy is very much Man United, rightly or wrongly, but it just is. And that's something that we can all unite around.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so I think with your podcast, what's something that you can unite around? It brings your tribe in, it gets people to connect with you and I think it's, it's, it's a really interesting idea.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think it just gives it a voice, it gives it a flavor and it's good to have a bad guy and you can make them serious, you can make them comical how, however you want to do it. And people rally around that.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, very much so.

Sadaf Beynon: I like also what you said about it being a challenge. So like, you know, I'm technically challenged, as you all know, so that's my enemy. This microphone is often my enemy. But yeah, I like, it's like I'm.

Matt Edmundson: Gonna do that.

Sadaf Beynon: But that, you know, those are, it's almost like stepping stones to a bigger, better self.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think it's good, it is good to challenge you and push you and think differently and think outside the box. It's, it's a, it's a really interesting idea and I love this, I've loved this conversation all about Enemy and, and opinions and identifying them because it's not something I've come across on a branding document, so. And I've seen a lot of branding Documents. This is my logo. This is our brand voice. These are our colors. This is.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And. But there needs to be a section like, this is what we stand for. These are our values.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: This is what we. Like with Jersey. We were very clear on what. Sorry, Jersey is a. If you don't know, is an old beauty business that we had that we sold. Very, very clear on what our values were for that company. And if. If something didn't make sense and we were just like, well, this is. Let's just not do that. So one of our values was just to have fun. We called it Jersey Fight. We just wanted to have fun. And so when we did the Jersey podcast, we just. We just had fun. We ripped into everybody. The. The. The enemy. There was just the beauty industry, which was ironic because that was because you.

Sadaf Beynon: Were in it, I was in it.

Matt Edmundson: And we're like, we're the little guy. Take it on this whole industry, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was great, and it resonated, and we felt that's what, like, you know, and it gave us a lot of voice, a lot of opinion, and a lot of topic to be able to talk about. I guess my only comment in this is, bring balance. Because you can spend so long talking about your enemy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Matt Edmundson: That you become quite warped. Me. And so almost the point where it's obsessive. And that's where I think I would say maybe some of the political podcasts that come out, I switched them off after a while because I think they have become obsessive about the bad guy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And no one. And I see this with political campaigners as well. They talk. They tell me so much about how the other person's a lunatic, but not really a whole great deal about how they're going to help.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so. And we switch things like that off. It gets. It gets a bit dull and boring after a while. So. Yeah, don't elevate the enemy. Don't make the enemy so easy that you can defeat it. In an instance, Darth Vader had to have a bit of teeth.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: You know, one of the funniest things I've seen on Instagram recently was a clip from the opening scene of Star Wars 4, where Darth Vader is walking down the corridor and he's, you know, chopping people down with a lightsaber and, you know, breaking their necks and doing all the force maneuvers and stuff. And it's got the Star wars music. And what they did was they took the Star wars music out and they put some really light dance music in there, and it does change the whole scene dramatically. Became like this little dance. I was like, yeah, music really makes the mood.

Matthew Holman: It does.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so it's just very funny. But I think, you know, have an enemy that is difficult to overcome, that is way bigger than you, which is why you need the tribe. You need the people to rally around this cause, whatever it is, and to help you, you know, collectively, you're going to achieve this. And I think it would give you a lot of good marketing collateral.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And it will really give you a podcast, a voice.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So, yeah. Anything else on that?

Sadaf Beynon: No, I would just say have a show that has a clear perspective, clear stance, and don't run the risk of being just another show.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Be. Be relevant. Be resonant. Is that a word?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Resonate. Yeah. Resonant. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I think I totally agree. Totally agree. Have a. Have a perspective, have a clear opinion, Stand for something, stand out. And I think you'll always do well. But if you don't, I think it's just. Yeah, it is one of the things, isn't it? It's like when we say to people when they're going to do a podcast, well, how are you different from another podcast? And it actually, for a lot of people, it's a difficult question to answer.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think understanding that is really important, because if you don't know the answer that question, how's your audience going to know?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so. And you do want to rally a tribe around you. So. Yeah, man, we've gone on for a little bit too long. Look at that, 35 minutes.

Sadaf Beynon: We're just sharing our opinions is all.

Matt Edmundson: Actually, I think we pressed the record button like two minutes before we actually start recording, so I don't know how long.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh, yeah, that is true. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Josh has to edit a fair bit out of the start of this one. Sorry, Josh. But yeah, hopefully you got something out of this. I really enjoyed that conversation. Conversation. It's not. It's not a typical conversation. Thank you, Matthew, for that. That's all good food for thought there. But, yeah, happy New Year. Thank you for joining us. And if you haven't done so yet, make sure the first thing you do in 2025 is, like, subscribe to the show because, you know, you don't want to be our enemy.

Sadaf Beynon: And also, just to add the full conversation with Matthew's coming out at the end of this week.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Looking forward to that one. That'll be a great one to get so yeah, if you're new to the show, we do these clips where we talk about stuff and then we do that for a few weeks and then we release the full interview. So your full interview with Matthew is going to be out on Friday. So, yeah, do check that out. And do get in touch with Matthew. I'm sure he'd appreciate you just saying, how's it? He's had a new baby boy. So go and say congratulations. Although probably by the time you hit this podcast, might be a teenager.

Sadaf Beynon: There's that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, there is that. So just go and say, how's it to Matthew. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you, but sincerely, a happy new year to you. I hope you get all you need out of 2025 and that things go well. And if you want to learn and keep learning how to use podcasts to grow your business, then do stay in touch, get in touch with us. We'd love to hear from you. I'm on LinkedIn at Matt Edmondson. You are LinkedIn.

Sadaf Beynon: Sadaf Banan.

Matt Edmundson: Are you sure?

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, I am sure.

Matt Edmundson: Every time I ask you this question, it feels like I'm asking you a trick question.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, it does. It feels like a trick question. Yep. LinkedIn. Sadaf Beynon.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. So, yeah, come join us on LinkedIn. Come enjoy the conversation. It'd be great to see you on there. But other than that, anything else from you?

Sadaf Beynon: No.

Matt Edmundson: Awesome. That's it from us. Have an awesome week. Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Pod Junction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't Forget to visit podjunction.com where you'll find more information about how you can join Pod Junction cohort. Whether you listened while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.