Chat Your Way to Bigger Business! | Lee Houghton

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting. Whether you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just simply taking a minute for yourself, our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or a seasoned podcaster, this episode is for you.

Matt Edmundson: Wow, very warm welcome to you. Welcome to this brand new episode of Podjunction. My name is Matt Edmundson. Next to me is Sadaf Beynon. We are here to talk about how to use podcasting To grow your business. That's it. That's the aim. That's the thinking. And it's fair to say Sadaf, we're sat here mustering as much energy as we can.

[00:01:00] As we can. We we went away for a staff, what would you call it? A staff retreat? Yeah, I think so. A staff retreat. For the weekend, and this is the first day we're all back, everyone is so we all need a day or two to recover. Not that anything bad happened, but it was a good crack, but it was yeah, I think we all succumbed to something over that weekend.

And so we're just all a bit yeah, but welcome to you. It's great. It's good that you can join us. Glad that you're here. It's good to be back in the throes of things, back to normal as they say.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Are you sure?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Have you smashed through that wall yet?

Sadaf Beynon: It's, no. I have had some food to help me through it, but not quite there yet.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's fair to say we have a lot of food downstairs.

Sadaf Beynon: Costco muffins and

Matt Edmundson: cookies. Yeah, we came back with a chunk of food. We're not gonna lie. And it's fair to say also that you and I have been banned from doing the shopping.

Sadaf Beynon: Which is okay, actually. [00:02:00] Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: it's okay. Sadaf and I went to Costco, Thursday.

Time of recording this is a Tuesday. So it's four days ago, five days ago. And we went to buy the food for the weekend. And we was like, let's get one of them, get one of them. And I drive a van. I don't drive a car. I drive a van. I'm a bit of a van guy. And we filled the van basically with food. So it was

Sadaf Beynon: and we brought most of it back.

Matt Edmundson: We did, but it was a good crack.

Sadaf Beynon: No one starved.

Matt Edmundson: That's true. We all ate very well. Yes. Anyway, enough about our weekend. What are we doing today?

Sadaf Beynon: We have Lee Houghton back again from Prob. The legend. Yeah. What was it? What was this? Business problem solved. And sorry. She really does care, Lee.

Matt Edmundson: Honest. I

Sadaf Beynon: do. I do. Yeah, and he's talking about finding guests and maintaining relationship with them.

Matt Edmundson: Okay, so without further ado, we're going to listen to, if this is your first time with us, by the way the way we do this [00:03:00] is we listen to a clip from an interview. Sadaf or I will interview A well known podcaster about how they use podcasting to help grow their business.

We play a clip from that interview and then Sadaf and I will be back to chat about said clip. Without further ado, here is the quintessential Lee Houghton, who is an absolute legend. Here he is. Question about your guests then. How do you find the guests to come on your show, or do they find you now?

Lee Houghton: Yeah, so this is, This is, at the start I would, I picked people cause four years ago, it wasn't podcast, what podcasting wasn't as big as it is now, even it continues to grow. So I found people that I was interested in via LinkedIn. So I just send them a little message on LinkedIn.

So that was predominantly where I find them. I would search for them on LinkedIn, connect with them, strike up a conversation. And I find that LinkedIn has been the place where I've found a lot of the people, a lot of the interesting people that I've wanted to speak [00:04:00] to.

And I also find that LinkedIn people are more likely to strike up a conversation with you on LinkedIn than any other social media that I find based on the people that I'm searching for. So LinkedIn's been the door opener, the podcast has been like the conversation starter and then I've been able to continue the conversation on the pod.

So that's been amazing. Some people now have started to reach out, so reaching out, so there's like a load of podcast agencies now that they've got guests associated with them and then they start to surge. But I'm a little bit choosier with them, if I'm honest. Just because there's so many of them now, it's like people spamming me and so no, I don't just accept them.

I've got, there's got to be a particular reason and a particular question that I want answering that then allows me to do that. And some of the, they make some really simple mistakes as well with when they're writing out to you, you can tell when they've they've copied and pasted.

Your name or the podcast name into set text and stuff like that. So I, no, I ditch no matter who the guest is. I ditch all those anyway. Yeah. Just 'cause it's lazy. LinkedIn [00:05:00] previous people that I've had the opportunity to work with so if I've been at an expo or been at a dinner or something and there's been somebody I've wanted to speak to, then

Matt Edmundson: yeah

Lee Houghton: I struck a conversation there.

But yeah, so LinkedIn personal relationships. And then the odd person that writes to me who looks like they've got an interesting angle on a topic that I'm interested in as well. But yeah, so I think, podcasting is just growing. It's going massive. It's the last four years, it's more and more people have been doing it and more and more people have been listening to it.

And yeah, so it's just relatively straightforward to get guests, to find guests. Yeah, it is. It's frictionless, it's a lot more frictionless as well, isn't it? Because it's like this, I'm in my house and you're in your house, in your office.

Matt Edmundson: I'm in the shed

Lee Houghton: at the bottom of my garden. Very good.

So with the lights off as well,

Matt Edmundson: I think

Lee Houghton: It's just a lot more frictionless to do this now. The [00:06:00] technologies though, just to make it easier. And so it's just somebody finding an hour in the diaries or having to travel somewhere to have a conversation and travel back. So yeah, it's not many people said no to an interview or a conversation and yeah, I've had the opportunity to speak with so many people.

So many people.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's such a good point and this is one of the reasons why I love podcasting, especially if you're in business or leadership, that if I approach someone on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I do ecommerce coaching services or whatever. That. So what I don't care. Leave me alone, right?

I'm getting spammed by email. I'm getting spammed on LinkedIn. People are trying to cold call me. I just don't care. Whereas if I contact that same person and say, listen, I've got a podcast. I'd love for you to come on the podcast, think you could offer some great value. What do you think? 99 times out of a hundred, they're like, I would love to come on the show.

Right? And then the doors open. And yeah it's been incredible, that, that sort of thing. Do you stay in touch with guests once you've [00:07:00] done the show? How do you do that? Or do you just stay in touch with a select few that you really enjoyed or liked?

Lee Houghton: Yeah, so I'm rubbish at that. I need to get far better at it. And that's why I want to create more assets from the material that I've got, because yeah, that gives me, that would give me an opportunity to reach out and share the value. Because what I've found is everybody has a story.

Irrelevant of the position, irrelevant of the life, irrelevant of how they answer that question, do you see yourself as successful? Success is individual. And I think a lot of the lessons that, that people have had to go through there's a lot of like value in ensuring some of those things.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Lee Houghton: So I'm not very good at keeping in touch with people. I need to keep in touch with people far better especially cause Chris's second lesson is make good friends. Make good friends,

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not doing that as well as I would like to. So in fact that's something that I should be committing to do more.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Next year for me, it will be trying to maintain better Friendships and relationships with everybody that I come into contact with.

Matt Edmundson: [00:08:00] Yeah. Yeah, very good

Okay, paused at the end there didn't it the video so welcome back Lee talking about how he finds guests for his show and also a little bit about follow up and So yeah, what are we talking about then off the back of that?

Sadaf Beynon: What stood out to me listening to was like he started off in LinkedIn with LinkedIn.

It was a manual process, wasn't it? Searching for them, connecting with them, having that conversation. And then when he moved on to the agency bit where he was talking about, people contacting him and you could tell it was a cut and paste job and it just wasn't personal. It didn't feel like they really, it was a mass produced email in some sense, so I was actually thinking it goes, it works both ways, just as much as the guest wants to feel special and reached out to on a personal level on LinkedIn.

We as podcasters want that as well.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's true.

Actually,

Sadaf Beynon: it's not,

We just [00:09:00] like the agencies are helpful, but at the same time, we don't want to be like, A cut and paste kind of mass produced email.

Matt Edmundson: That's a very good point. So if your strategy is to reach out to podcasts and to get onto a podcast, how you do that, there's a real trade off, isn't there, between how much time you invest in each individual podcast versus how much you just buy mail list and mail merge as much as you can.

And I think it is a really interesting point and agencies that if you don't know there are podcast agencies out there You can join you can sign up to them. And if you need one, let us know because we will recommend one to you but there are agencies out there that you can join and you pay them. The way it works is you pay them a fee, right?

For every appearance on a show that they get you and that fee can range anything. We've seen fees from like a hundred bucks to I was talking to a chap the other day on the eCommerce podcast I said, I think there's a lady, but she paid 450 to appear for [00:10:00] that appearance. So the agent that got her the appearance on our show, she paid 454.

And obviously, the value of that is going to be dependent on you, your business, what it is you're trying to do. But it was interesting how He talked about this, didn't he? With Lee with agencies that when basically you're going to go to an agency and agency has got thousands of podcasts on their books, those podcasts, they don't know there are software out there, which you can get access to, which will give you the name and email people, addresses of podcasts.

So that's how they do it. If you want to appear on, I don't know, a knitting podcast, they will go and find all the people that have knitting podcasts using industry databases on there. There's a couple of them now. And it will pull out the names and email addresses and they'll contact them on your behalf, send you the one, send them the podcast, the one sheet and try and get you the appearances they send you the invoice for every appearance they get you.

In some respects, it's pretty easy work. Yeah. You just need a database and the ability to connect with people, but you could do it yourself. And like you say the more [00:11:00] personal you can make that, the better the chance you've got of getting on the show, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Matt Edmundson: Which is a good point, rather than just doing the standard, I'm just going to send the same email to a thousand people and mail merge a few things.

Sadaf Beynon: And I guess if you look at our process as we go on, we want that guest to be invested in our business in some capacity. Yeah. So having that personal touch point right at the beginning helps all the subsequent ones too, doesn't it?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it does. So the way we do it is we have a form, don't we, on the website.

Cause we get approached by a lot of agencies to for guest appearances on our show and we just reply back to the same ones unless we know them really well, but we just reply to them with the same response, which says, it's great. Please put their information here on this website form and we found actually just that very simple thing filters out a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: It does, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Because if we get say a hundred emails, I don't know what the actual percentage is, but I'm going to guess it's something like 50 or [00:12:00] 60 of those people we reply to will then go and do the form. 40 of them won't even be bothered. Yeah, that's right. Because it's too much like hard work.

Yeah. They've got a list of other podcasts they can be on. Yeah. So then that filters out a lot of stuff for us, I think, just by having that form on the website. And yeah, it's an interesting one. It is an interesting idea that we've come across there, but I think Lee's right.

I think if you're getting podcast guests through agencies, if agencies are contacting you, and that, hey, listen, if they're not contacting you yet, they will contact you. You alright? Yes. I'm back. You're back. Still hitting that wall. Yes. The agencies will contact you if. When your show starts to grow and when it starts to be a bit more consistent and your name starts to appear in the databases, basically they will start to message you an email.

It does make getting guests easier. Yeah. But the quality of the guest isn't always great from agencies. It's probably fair to say. That's

Sadaf Beynon: right. And I think there is that point where you've been looking for guests and you having to go out for them and then suddenly they start pouring in. Oh, this is great.

It's made [00:13:00] my job so much easier. But I think filtering through those guests is still really important.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And actually probably having quite a strict criteria. Because you do get sent some great people who will be great guests for your show, but you're also going to get sent some people who would not make a great guest for your show.

Yeah. It's fair to say, right? And from my point of view, I never see this because you take care of it all. Yeah. You're in the team. You just, you get all the applications and pfft. I just talked to them. I was there in the diary, which is a beautiful thing. So what, when agencies contact us, we send them to the form.

Yeah. They fill out the form. If they don't fill out the form, we're not interested.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Cause I feel, I think sometimes they're like I've already done my outreach. I've already emailed you. And they'll probably move on to people who have picked up their email and run with it. Yeah. Whereas I've said, no, could you please go back to our website?

That's where we start. And so maybe they'll circle back at a later time, but [00:14:00] not necessarily right away.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. They don't like doing all that extra work agencies. So what else do we look for in guests when they come through agencies? What are some of the other filters that we,

Sadaf Beynon: I think it depends, of course, on the podcast in some ways, but I think also it was, I think it was Marcia who said, make sure they can talk.

They know how to talk. She's, yes, that's how she put it. But I think for me, it's making sure that they're going to be able to hit it off with you as the host.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: So that they're able to connect with you and have fun and because that you're quite relaxed in your approach.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, usually.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And so I think for them to be able to, be okay with that and just be okay with because with you you'll ask a question, they'll answer and you'll just keep digging until you're satisfied and then you move on to the next thing where some people come.

With the mindset that it's going to be these five questions, and then that's the end. So they just need to be aware that, the format's a bit different. It's more of a [00:15:00] conversation, less of an interview.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, top tips there. Now, if you are looking for guests, so the way Lead does this and still does this, did this and still does this, is similar to what we do for example with Push, is you can find people on LinkedIn.

If, obviously LinkedIn makes sense if you're wanting to talk to people involved in business or leadership or something like that. If you can find your guests on LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a great platform for getting guests because it's easy to connect. It's easy to search, it's easy to filter and it's easy to find people that meet your guest criteria on LinkedIn.

And actually there's also a good chance they've probably been on podcasts before, if they're on LinkedIn, not necessarily all of them, obviously. But it is a real, I think LinkedIn is a really interesting platform.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I think too to what you're saying, it works the other way again, in that they can check you out.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Like before they choose to respond even.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's true. So actually, that's a good point. If you're going to [00:16:00] do a LinkedIn outreach strategy, which I think you probably would want to, if you want some really good guests make sure your bio page or about us page or whatever they call it on LinkedIn is up to date and include the podcast and links to the podcast.

And those kinds of things. I was thinking it through actually, as I'm saying this, we should, the way we have. The way we get it working is when guests have been on the show, there's a couple of things we ask them, one of which is review, right? Yeah, we do. Can you give us a review? And so we've got some great reviews from past guests, which we should probably put on.

Sadaf Beynon: We've got them on the website, some of them, but yeah, LinkedIn would be good.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it would make a little bit more sense, wouldn't it? We could do that, but yeah I think make sure obviously your LinkedIn page is up to date. So you're going to invite people to come on your podcast. The first thing they're going to do is click on your profile.

So your profile needs to help them say yes. So yeah, one of the things I didn't ask Lee was actually how he deals with people that [00:17:00] say yes, he start, he kicks off conversations on LinkedIn. It's easy to have a conversation going back and forth. And so I guess he just then sends him a link to sort of book a recording slot.

Which is definitely one. So you need to have a, you need to understand what's gonna happen if someone says yes. Yeah, have a process for that. A process, have a process or a process. Yes. Get your prep water, get your process up and running. Just think that through, just have a really strong idea of what it is you want to do when someone says, yes, you're going to send them to a website, you're going to have them fill out a web form.

Are you just going to do everything through LinkedIn messages? Could you create some templates? And then obviously using something like what do we use? zcal? Is that right? zcal to create like recording links. So it's like here, let's go choose a recording slot that works well for you. We use something called zcal.

co. Yeah, I think that's right. It's like Calendly, but free, which is, we like that. We like free works. Although they've now got a paid version, I saw. Oh, do they? Yeah, they're still on the free. But there's all kinds of platforms. There's Calendly, there's [00:18:00] zcal, you can even do it direct with Google.

Like I was on Norm's podcast the other day. And in fact, he's just gone and invited me on. He's got loads of podcasts Norm Farrar, he's been on,

Sadaf Beynon: has he been on this show? No, but I've asked him to come. Okay. Yeah. Cause I did mention it to him.

Matt Edmundson: I've been on his podcast. He's got more podcasts than I have, I think but he uses Google.

Oh, does he? Yeah. Yeah. He just uses it. You just go to Google and book straight into the diary that way. Okay. But it just makes it easier. So have a simple process, right? That process needs to include ability to book a pre call if you're going to do a pre call, you need to book a pre call.

If you're not going to do a pre call, you obviously need to get them a whole bunch of information ahead of time on what the podcast is going to be like and what to expect. And that's probably going to be about it really. I can't think of anything else. You should you'll know more than me.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, that's about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Keep it simple. Don't make it complicated. Keep it simple. Now, if you go to our website and you fill out the web form, that's not necessarily a simple, and we ask a whole bunch of questions on that. And, but that was very intentional, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. [00:19:00] That's intentional. One, to filter people out and two, it helps our processes, doesn't it?

Like it gives us all the information we need.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, because we ask for things like headshots, social media links, bio, those kind of things which we like to get from people. So again, depending on your podcast, but LinkedIn is definitely a good place to go. Now, if your guests aren't hanging out on LinkedIn, what social media platform do they hang out on and how can you find them and reach them on that social media platform?

I do have people reach out to me on Instagram, for example, but the way Instagram handles messages and because I'm such a big Don't I suppose when it comes to checking my Instagram messages, you can go three or four weeks before I even see that, and because it puts it in a different tab. So I don't think Instagram is great.

Facebook for me is even worse. I was on Facebook the other day and said, Oh, we've got messages. Oh, okay. That was like from two months ago. So I think there are things like that to bear in mind which is where I think LinkedIn was quite well. Or you can try and get their email. Yeah would be a, if you've got their email, obviously you can get ahold of them [00:20:00] directly that way.

But I think if you're doing your first 20 episodes, you probably know most of the people that you could get on the show anyway, they're going to be in your podcast. And your CRM, your contact, your database, whatever you use, you're probably going to have a phone number or an email, so you can just contact them directly.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But when it's cold outreach, LinkedIn is a great platform.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, it is. And I remember using LinkedIn back like earlier in our eCommerce day, back in the day.

Matt Edmundson: Is that what you're going to say? I used LinkedIn back in the day.

Sadaf Beynon: Moved on now. When I was a lad, we

Matt Edmundson: used LinkedIn.

Sadaf Beynon: But yeah, that is something I did ask.

If they were told a bit about it, if they were interested, if they were, then could I please have your email address? And then everything else was through email. The communication that I was done with LinkedIn. And at that point.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. That's a very good point. Actually get their email address as soon as you can start that conversation on email.

Someone said to me the other day, which I thought was a really interesting comment. They said to me that LinkedIn is the one [00:21:00] platform Microsoft has not screwed up yet. You I think they were, yeah, it sounds fair. They were harboring issues regarding teams, which we all have to be fair. It's been scarred since COVID.

Yeah, it's been scarred by Microsoft Teams. So apparently they screwed up Skype. They've done Teams, screwed that up, but LinkedIn. As things currently stand, it's not too bad, so far. Yeah, so far. So yeah great tips from Lee there in terms of finding people on LinkedIn underst starting conversations with them.

Don't be afraid to do it. I think sometimes we overanalyze it, don't we? Yeah. Overthink it. And so what if they, what if do you know? What if they hate me? What if they report me for spamming? And it's no, don't just get on with it. They can say no, that's about it. And then just be polite.

Yeah. And if they say, just leave me alone. Just leave 'em alone. Don't be an asshole about it. But I think if you're polite with people. The thing that I've found actually when doing outreach on platforms like LinkedIn is to have a strategy which says, I'm going [00:22:00] to send an email, a message, LinkedIn message.

I'm gonna reach out to the person. Hey, Fred thought it'd be great to connect. By the way, I've got this podcast. We talk about this, looking at your bio. I think you might make a great guest. Is this something of interest to you? Yes or no? Question marks. Maybe it's simple like that. It only needs to be like a few lines.

But have a strategy which says if they don't respond within seven days, I'm going to message them again. I don't just go they've not responded, therefore they're not interested. Because quite, my experience is actually, I see it, the email, I'll read it. I think, oh, I must do something with that.

And then completely forget. And quite a lot of people do this now, it seems because of the overwhelm. And so it's not a bad thing to say if I've not heard from you in seven days, just to send a second message, which says, Hey, whatever your name is just following up on this. I haven't heard, no, no problem if not.

But yeah, just curious, simple like that. Just brings it back to the top of their inbox. In fact, we have three messages. And so again, if we've not heard from them in the week, I just sent them a sort of a, they call it the breakup email or the goodbye email, something [00:23:00] like that. In essence, basically saying, listen Simon, I've appreciate you.

You're probably getting a lot of messages. I've not heard from you. I just want you to know I'm going to stop messaging you after this. Cause obviously, if you're not interested, that's totally fine. And I don't want to come across as a freak and a spam dude. So I'm gonna stop messaging you after this, but of course, anytime you want to reach out to me, if you want to come on the show, we'd love to have you just respond to this message.

And we've had people like six months later respond to that message. And so I think it leaves it on a good tone because you're not. being a total lunatic then. Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: the ball's in their court, they don't feel the pressure.

Matt Edmundson: Exactly. And you know that you can move on, you can close that and go and find somebody else.

And because especially if you're starting out, you might not want more than say, I don't know, 50 messages open, right? So you're going to go and say I'm going to start off by messaging 50 people on the understanding that maybe 30 percent of them will say, yes, I want to get 15 guests.

That's 15 weeks worth of content. But maybe 20 of them haven't responded yet. So do you go and do another sort of 20, of thing. And I think if you've [00:24:00] got 50 open at any one point in time, that's probably about right. And then you can add, if you get people saying yes or no, just add 10 a week or something like that.

But once you've got it set up, it should be pretty straightforward. Just keep going. And I've always found with podcasting, it's always better to have a wait list than no list.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, definitely. Cause it doesn't make it

Matt Edmundson: looks a bit more popular, doesn't it?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But yeah, that

Sadaf Beynon: keeps you ahead of things.

Yeah, because we've been on the back foot a few times, haven't we?

Matt Edmundson: But we are with Push in some respects, aren't we, at the moment, because we when we first launched Push, we did this strategy, we reached out to 500 people on LinkedIn. Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: it was.

Matt Edmundson: And within sight of a few weeks, we had over a year's worth of guests, didn't we?

We did. You're like, goodness me. So some of the podcasts we recorded, didn't air for eight months. I think in hindsight, that wasn't a clever thing because, the guest sort of forgets who you are in some respects.

Sadaf Beynon: But at the same time, we didn't expect such an uptake either. No,

Matt Edmundson: we wouldn't. It shows how full of faith we were.

Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Cause it took a while to get EP going, didn't it? [00:25:00] ECommerce Podcast. Yeah. eCommerce Podcast,

Matt Edmundson: getting the guests for that was a bit more of a bit more involved, a bit more of a hustle. Yeah. Whereas with Push, cause we were expecting it to be like EP, everyone just was like, yeah, that's awesome. We're like, oh my goodness.

So we turned the campaign off like after three weeks, we'd got like over 18, was it 18 months? I can't remember. It was a lot of stuff. It was over

Sadaf Beynon: a year. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so we've been publishing those episodes every week. I've not recorded a Push Podcast for

Sadaf Beynon: quite some time. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Done the odd one here and there, but nothing major.

And so now we've got to the stage where we're going, oh yeah, we should probably go and get some more guests. And to be fair, all I'm going to do is do what we're telling you to do. We're just going to go on LinkedIn and go find some interesting people and say, listen, would you like to come on the show?

Especially those interesting people are going to be guests that I think if we could, we always talk about starting meaningful conversations with people that can have a sort of significant impact on your business. . So we'll go and find those people. And we'll get them on the show. I must remember to do that actually.

Yeah. And get that back up and running. What we didn't do, because it was so crazy [00:26:00] at the start, was we didn't have this sort of weekly go and get more guest thing, which I think we'll do now. Yeah. We need to rather than this sort of boom bust scenario, which we find ourselves in with that particular podcast.

Whereas with PodJunction, the guests that so far have been on the show are people that we know from the industry, aren't they? Yeah. So they were easy guests to get in a lot of ways, because they go on a lot of people's podcasts, they get invited to go on a lot of people's podcasts, and I'm like, just come on the show, man, we'd love to talk to you, and it seems to work quite well.

Yeah, there you go. That's the strategy for going getting guests. Predominantly on LinkedIn, we've talked about there are obviously other things and other ways that you can do this. I dare say we'll get into this more as we go along. But that was a great tip from Lee in terms of how to find guests.

Hope you found this helpful and useful. Now some interesting stuff in there. Was there anything else from you? No. Is that it? Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yep.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Awesome. So what we got next week?

Sadaf Beynon: Lee Houghton again.

Matt Edmundson: Again.

Sadaf Beynon: Again. This is a good one, though. I know it's four, but [00:27:00] this is worth it. This is worth hanging out for.

No, it's just the way

Matt Edmundson: you said, this is a good one, though. This one we've just had wasn't a good one. This was also good. Thanks,

Sadaf Beynon: Lee. Thanks, Lee, for all your valuable insight. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: The other three have been okay, but this one's gonna be a good one next week, ladies and gentlemen. Lee's listening to this podcast, he's gonna slap you.

Metaphorically, of course, we do not condone violence in any way, and Lee is not a violent chap. But yeah, so we've got the fourth episode. So Lee's the first guest we've had on the show where we've done four episodes from his interview.

That in itself tells you a lot about the coolness of Leigh and the amazingness of Lee. So yes, if you haven't done so already, check out LLee'spodcast. We'll of course link to Lee's podcast in the show notes. You can follow that link and listen to it. But yeah, been a treat, been fun. Alright, we'll catch you next week.

That's it from me. That's it from Sadaf. Bye for now.[00:28:00]

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at PodJunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com where you'll find more information about how you can join PodJunction Cohort.

Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.