Behind the Mic: Growing Confidence One Episode at a Time | Lee Houghton

Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting. Whether you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just simply taking a minute for yourself, our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh insights from successful podcasters who have cracked the code of using podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or a seasoned podcaster, this episode is for you.

Matt Edmundson: Hello, welcome to a brand new episode of the Podjunction podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. And beside me is Covid Beynon. How are we doing Covid?

Sadaf, much better. Yeah, good. She called me at the weekend, just sounding, you didn't sound like you were in a healthy place. That's for sure. It was definitely it was definitely not a good place, but [00:01:00] you've tested negative. I have. It's really interesting. I know this is a show about podcasting, but on this whole COVID thing, I can't remember the last time I took a COVID test.

I think I'm impressed you actually did the test.

Sadaf Beynon: I only did it because someone told me I should. And not just that, actually handed me a test.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, was that Jeff?

Sadaf Beynon: No, it wasn't. I was actually supposed to be helping out at the church. And I went to the church to help out. And she was like, I think you should take a COVID test, brought me the test.

Matt Edmundson: Wow, that's good. Because I don't even know if I've got any.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But it's interesting how the world's changed with this attitude towards COVID. So yeah, COVID sat next to me, recovering COVID addict. Welcome to Podjunction. We talk about podcasting, how to use podcasting to grow your business.

And cure COVID.

Absolutely. It's amazing what podcasting can do. We're finding out every week, something new and exciting. But yeah, if this is your first time with us, very warm welcome to you. It's great to have you with us. Like I say, we just [00:02:00] talk about podcasting, how to use it to help us grow our own businesses.

I don't even know what episode we're on now, 19? We are on

Sadaf Beynon: 19.

Matt Edmundson: I just, in my head, I've got that Paul Hardcastle, do you remember Paul Hardcastle?

Sadaf Beynon: No.

Matt Edmundson: The song 19. Just Google Paul Hardcastle 19. It was a song I think from the 80s. 19. 19. 19. 19. 19. And it was taught anyway.

Sadaf Beynon: No, I don't know.

Matt Edmundson: It's a slightly political song.

But I've got the tune in my head. I think I'm showing my age slightly. So welcome to episode 19. There is a nice big catalogue. And basically, the way we do this, if you don't know, if you are new to us, We chat to experts, ask them a whole bunch of questions, and then we chat about it usually.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I don't know how much chatting you're going to do today.

Sadaf Beynon: Lots.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I've been in bed the last week. I've got plenty of vocal exercise in me. I've not talked to anybody. So yeah, that's what we're going to do. So in today's show, we have, that's your cure.

Sadaf Beynon: I'm on the slow train, but I'm going to do lots of [00:03:00] talking. Okay, so we've got Lee Houghton. Who is the host of

Business Problem Solved,

Business Problem Solved Podcast. And in this particular segment, he's talking about his interview style and how it's changed over time.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Fantastic. We're looking forward to this. Lee's a great guy. I've been on his show. That's how I met him. He invited me on his podcast. Thank you. It was like a while ago now.

Yeah, he's great guy. And so I'm curious to hear what you have to say about the interview thing. So are we going straight into that or have you got another segment?

Sadaf Beynon: I have a question.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, okay.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: So I must remember this. We always do the question thing now before the talk. This is a new feature. Yes. It's not really new anymore.

Newish.

Sadaf Beynon: Whenever you remember it, it's new.

Matt Edmundson: Okay, what's the question?

Sadaf Beynon: Okay, so if you could If I could instantly gain one skill to improve [00:04:00] your podcast, what would that be?

Matt Edmundson: If I could instantly gain one skill does this have to be a real thing?

Sadaf Beynon: No, you can do whatever you want with that. Can it be like

Matt Edmundson: a superpower?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, that'd be fun.

Matt Edmundson: My desired superpower is the ability just to instantly appear wherever I want. I just think it and I'm just there, like some kind of teleportation portal type thing.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: Which would be just cool. So if I could do that would make podcasting really cool.

So how would

Sadaf Beynon: that work with podcasting? And I could do

Matt Edmundson: in person interviews all the time.

Sadaf Beynon: Ah, okay. And it's

Matt Edmundson: I'm going to come to you and then we're going to go sit on a beach in the Maldives. And do the podcast recording.

Sadaf Beynon: So you can teleport other people too.

Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: Just checking,

Matt Edmundson: lonely otherwise, or maybe that's the point.

I don't know, I just need to get away. I'm going the moldy, just leave me

Sadaf Beynon: alone.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, that would be, I don't know if that's the right answer.

Sadaf Beynon: There is no right answer.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. So yeah, teleportation, I think is a skill I'm lacking at the moment when it comes to podcasting.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: The ability to read people's minds.[00:05:00]

That would also be good, when you're asking them questions,

Sadaf Beynon: you can preempt what they're going to say, or you're going to know what they're going to say,

Matt Edmundson: so I could ask better questions. I think podcasting for me is all about asking the right questions to the people you're talking to. And so the skill of asking better questions is probably a more sensible skill, teleportation.

If I can have both, tell you what, I'm so looking forward to that first teleportation episode. I think it will do well on YouTube. I think people will be curious to

Sadaf Beynon: see what happens.

Matt Edmundson: Yes. Very good. All right. Should we do the whatevery bit, the clip? Yeah. With Lee for whatever, but, and the whatever, but just technical term.

So we're gonna play the clip from Lee. We're gonna, I think it's six, seven minutes long and then we're gonna be backtrack to chat about it, right? Yeah. Assuming you're awake. Yeah. Okay, cool. Here's Lee.

And what's interesting here is that the way I'm hearing you say this is as you've personally grown, as you've evolved, as you've become more comfortable, more confident.

The depth [00:06:00] of the questions that you ask has also increased, right? And you, it's really interesting, isn't it? When you start out, you're just like so tell me what's the weather doing where you are? And then by the time you're you've done a few episodes, you're like, what's the biggest challenge you've ever faced in life?

Let's dig, do you know what I mean? And you get straight into some of the meaty stuff now, don't you? And you're not afraid to do that, I think. And that's a confidence thing maybe that comes with time. And so your podcast style evolves and you're right. I think if I reflect on my own journey, it's a lot more me that's changed than everything else.

I can tell you little bits in the podcast that have changed a theme and blah, blah, blah, but actually the main culprit in the changes is myself, which is what you found, right?

Lee Houghton: Yes, yeah, I think just to pick one as well, my first few interviews, I researched the guest, I identified like seven or eight questions that I wanted to ask, and I wrote a post it down, and I had them on the top right of my screen here, and I was so fixated on working my [00:07:00] way through this recipe of questions, I wasn't actually listening to what people were saying to me, and then now I've ditched it, and I just asked three questions, tell me what's your story, how did you get to that seat, what you're having for your tea and where can people find out about you?

And we just have a conversation, it's just a pure conversation now. And it's helped me develop. So I'm a leadership coach and business improvement person. And what it's allowed me to do now is just become really comfortable with silence, really comfortable asking those, I'm going to call them killer questions, but the kind of real critical questions, and it's allowed me to have far more better, that's some brilliant English, far more improved conversations. It's not improved my English any, that's coming from Charlie, but my ability to have conversations has developed through my honing of the podcast, and I think that's something that I was never expecting, so it's allowed me to just develop doing what I do as well, [00:08:00] every week it's just an opportunity to just really.

Horn your conversational skills to get to the crux and the nub of the situation and the person because I'm conscious that people are going to be listening to it, so I've got to be a little bit better. I've got to improve. I've got to ask the better questions. What questions would other people be wanting to understand as well?

Like when you just started then and it would have been quite easy for you to skip over the three lessons of Chris and just go on to the podcast question, but you didn't, you stopped and you asked about that question. And I think that's a skill and it's an art. And so it's just the ability to listen to what is actually being said.

And that's something else that's really, really been honed by me doing the podcast.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, it's just, again, fascinating, isn't it? And like you, I used to have trays and trays of questions for the guests and you're just like where do I ask that? And you'd spend hours thinking about the sort of the layout of the questions, like the route, the journey that you wanted people to go down.

And [00:09:00] now it's just no, I just have one or two fallback questions in case the conversation gets stifled. But the reality of it is I don't have any, and it's just going to be a conversation. And I think that when it comes to having real authentic conversations, what have you found, Lee, that makes a difference?

How do you do that now? What are some of the lessons that you've learned there?

Lee Houghton: The number one lesson for me is just actually listening to what the other person has said and giving them a full opportunity to finish saying what they're saying. So when I started, I used to be before, so if this was the other way around and I was having a conversation with you for my pod, when I first started, I'd be thinking of my next question to ask while you were still answering the question that I just asked.

But now it's just actually let the answer fully come out and then use that to create the next question. And that's taken a lot [00:10:00] of confidence to get to that space and be really comfortable not having a question to ask and using the narrative of the guest. So I think that the listening is key and I think the width of the question as well.

Our ability to ask questions I think is fundamental in business and conversations and often we bias our question with what we think they may answer or the direction that we want them to go. And I think just by asking, instead of, I try never to ask a why question now, so why is that the case, or why did that happen, because I think that's a little bit, that could be a little bit personal, and I try to ask a what and a how question, because what I find is that really widens the answers that they're giving, so what was the reason for that happening is different to why did you do that, and I think it just gives such more breadth of an answer from the guests, because you're not like really narrow in [00:11:00] your questions.

So I think what and how questions, but just questions that are really short as well. I think, I'll say those two things, the ability to listen and truly listen to the answers that are being said and be comfortable with not having a question to ask. And then the second one is just really all about

the ability to ask a short question that's a what and a how question that just allows the thoughts of the other person to just be , so them to allow to explore their thoughts fully, rather than be biased with what you think and the direction that you want to go. So I would say those two things are the main things.

And I think it's so natural in life as well. So like Chris's second lesson about making good friends. If you want to make good friends, you've got to really listen and have been invested in the words that the other person is saying. And then you've got to show an interest in that other person as well.

And by you asking a question based on what they've said, I think really shows that you've listened [00:12:00] to that other person as well and you want that you want them to feel like you want them to feel special. So yeah, I would say that I'd say those two things.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. Thanks. Lee, that was, I'm, as he was chatting away, I remember that conversation in my head.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a great conversation. And yeah, make sure you listen to the full version of that because he talks about his friend Chris.

He's the best friend that passed away and there was some lessons that Chris passed on to him. So when he's talking about Chris in the interview, that's who he's talking about, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just really, it's a really powerful story that Lee has. But Lee's a legend, just an absolute legend, just so down to earth from Chorley. Yeah. Chorley. My Chorley accent's not good, so I'm not going to, that's as far as I'm going to go, but Lee, legend.

Thanks for coming on, man. Have we got Lee again next week?

Sadaf Beynon: We do.

Matt Edmundson: Excellent. So we're going to get some more wisdom from Lee.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, what did you make of that?

Sadaf Beynon: I thought it was really good. I thought it was really interesting. Some of the things he pulled [00:13:00] out. I think what you like from the conversation, from where it started, it sounded like you guys had already been talking about some of the ways that the, like the interview skills have evolved, but really when it came down to it, it was yourselves that had.

There was a lot of personal growth and development in the process, which I thought was really cool. Do you want to comment on that?

Matt Edmundson: Sure, if I have permission.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, you have permission. I just felt like maybe I shouldn't do all the talking this time.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah no, it's fine. You crack on. You're much more interesting than I am.

I think it's interesting. We've talked about this before, haven't we, with podcasting, that it is a journey. You grow on that journey and the podcast changes. We're on episode 19 of Podjunction. I've not listened to Episode 1 for a little while but I imagine it's going to be a little bit different.

And there's going to be some more changes coming probably in the next five or 10 episodes that we've got planned. And so the podcast does evolve and you do change it and you do tweak it. And you think if we did this, we could do that. And we'll have a little play. But the thing that does change the [00:14:00] most is yourself, especially if you're interviewing people.

And you become a lot more confident about your show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So now I think when you're starting out. You're just in awe of the whole thing. And anybody that comes on your show, you're just super grateful for. And don't get me wrong, I'm still super grateful for guests, but now I think actually I'm much more confident in the show.

And so when we get big guests on, I'm not surprised. Whereas when you're starting out, you'd be like, what? Wetting yourself a little bit, but that's okay. I think the biggest change in podcasting is on the podcast host, especially in these conversational style interview ones, which we're a big proponent of.

Yeah, and that was definitely Lee's finding, that's definitely mine.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I also, to add to that, like how he's, he talked about going from post it notes and being really it was really structured. He was so caught up in what question is going to come next that he wasn't listening.

And it went from that part of his journey to where now it's more conversational, more fluid. It's a lot more of listening to the other person and then responding to what they've said rather than Yeah, exactly. [00:15:00] It's pulling something out off of the post it note,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. And I think, again, that's going to come down to the style of podcast you want to do, right?

So if you want to do the more Diary of the CEO kind of interview style podcast or the Carey Nieuwhof style interview podcast, then I think you have to spend a lot of time researching your guest because these guys come on the show, they're probably authors, there's stuff that they want to talk about. And they're expecting you to ask them really good questions around certain topics or certain ideas.

And if you don't know what they are, then this is the danger of doing something quite broad. Whereas both Lee and we chat around topics which are quite narrow, quite niche. So I'll talk, say, for example, about eCommerce. I'm pretty confident in that whole, and I actually don't mind looking like a fool in the sense of I don't understand what you're talking about.

Please explain that. You know what I mean? But I think I can't imagine. That happening say on Diary of the CEO, because he wants to know, he'll pull out things from the guest's history because they're usually [00:16:00] quite well known guests. He'll pull out things from their history or things that they've written and go, let's talk about that because that really interests me.

And so I think you have to do some research if you want to do that style show.

Sadaf Beynon: Where

Matt Edmundson: Lee and I do it and where I think it, it differs from that is actually. I'm not looking for a polished interview that's going to take a lot of, I was talking to a chap yesterday, Sean O'Neill, who's a legend, actually, we'll get him on the show at some point because he's just started out in podcasting on episode 20.

Check it out sean O'Neill. And he's very much done the high studio production. We're going to get nice cameras, we're going to edit the video, we're going to polish it up quite nicely. And I think it's a good thing to do. But the style that I prefer, I like the conversational style rather than the interview style.

Cause conversation is more about discovery. Yeah. Whereas interview, I want to talk about a specific topic and I want to make sure the questions I ask don't sound stupid. Whereas conversational is in my head, it's if you're in a pub. Do you know what I mean? And you're just catching up with [00:17:00] somebody and you've got to make that conversation interesting because other people are gigging in and they're listening into it.

And I think if you can do that's powerful. And the way you do that, tying it back into my teleportation superpower is the ability to ask good questions, which is what Lee was talking about. And yeah, I think you've got to decide your style. So for Lee, he had post it notes.

He was trying to do that research, heavily questioned research style. And what he discovered was for him, that's not the best fit. He's much more, and he's just super chatty and it's not for everybody. I get that. Some people like to be uber prepared. Yeah. Question. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: So you, just going back to what you were saying about, you're not afraid to look like a fool and just say, what do you mean by that?

Is that so I know you're talking about it in, in the sense of a conversational podcast, like you podcast, like you do, but is there an element of like even in that, was that part of your journey or of being more confident where you're [00:18:00] at and, Yeah. Conversation.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Very much I think, again, the more comfortable you feel, again, just touching back on something Lisa said about comfort, the more comfortable you feel with what you're doing, the less polish you feel like you've got to make it in some respects, unless if you are going for that highly polished podcast, then that's a different story.

But I prefer the way we do it because one it's just more me, two, it's an awful lot easier on everybody. We're not spending 10 hours at editing a podcast. It's all done quite quickly. It's all very conversation. It's all very natural. And I think as your confidence grows in that, actually being quite vulnerable with people that you're interviewing is a way to get them to be vulnerable back.

Sadaf Beynon: And

Matt Edmundson: especially if you're doing something that like with Push, eCommerce, vulnerability over search engine optimization is probably not necessarily, what we're after, but as we're growing the podcast out, we're going to get eCommerce entrepreneurs onto the show.

Actually, there'll be some vulnerability from them about their [00:19:00] story and about their journey. And I think if I can be vulnerable, which often for me is just going I'm lost on this or can you explain that a little bit more to me and Yeah, I think it's super important. And actually, sometimes I say to guests on the show, I don't really understand what you mean, not because I don't understand it.

But because I know somebody listening to the show won't understand it. So I'm always, I suppose the questions I'm thinking of are not just the questions in my head. But if I was listening to this show, what would I ask now? And if I'm new to eCommerce, I'd probably ask this. If I'm experienced in eCommerce, I might ask that.

And so it's a bit of a judgment call, but quite often I'll get people to clarify terms, which makes me look like I don't know what I'm talking about.

Sadaf Beynon: But as a host, do you find that's like you're constantly going back and forth because one, you want to have that natural conversation where you're just chatting and you're getting like discovery as you call it, and then the other side of it.

It's keeping your audience in mind because you don't want to forget the fact that there's going to be other people listening to this and it needs to appeal to them too, [00:20:00] or these are the kind of questions they might want to ask. So is that difficult going back and forth in your head or does it just become second nature the more you do it?

Matt Edmundson: That's a really good question. I think it actually, I think it's difficult. Something that if you've been in business a while, you probably can do anyway, because I think you business, any, anything where you've been successful like business, or we were talking about this last night in the marriage course, marriage, anything like that, where communication is needed, a successful communicator has the ability to put themselves in other people's shoes.

So you as the host have to put yourself in the guest's shoes. What are they thinking, feeling, experiencing? . And you have to go beyond that and put yourself in the listener's shoes and go, what questions would a listener have?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And also I'm just a genuinely interested, but I'm just interested slash nosy.

. So I've got the questions in my head as well and I think, I don't, I dunno if in my head now I'm intentionally switching between them. But I know when we started doing them, [00:21:00] I would jot, I would have like different columns on a notepad. . Like with different avatars. Okay.

So who I thought was listening to the show and I'd glance at it every now and again. And I'd just, I'd write a question in that column. So if they're a newbie then I'd wonder what they would ask now, or if they're this person, I wonder what they would ask now. And then there's me.

I don't do that anymore. Maybe I should, I don't know. If you listen to the eCommerce podcast, tell me, should I do that? I don't know, but I do think you get better at it the more you do.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, and I think it's about talking about eCommerce Podcast, we have quite a variety of different listeners and as in the different stages of their eCommerce journey.

And actually you're, you are really good at pulling out parts of what the guest is saying and make it pertain to different parts of our audience. Yeah, whether your lists did that for you or what, but they used to, yeah,

Matt Edmundson: I think it like, to answer your question, you do grow in, as your confidence grows, you become more and more aware of it, but this is all part of the journey of becoming a better podcaster.

I think you start to understand, you need to think [00:22:00] about things slightly differently. And what's interesting, what always makes me laugh is when you take these same skills and you sat around a dinner table with somebody and you almost go into, I'm podcast host mode. So I'm going to start asking you questions.

And they can almost feel like there's a barrage of questions coming. And sometimes I'll even do the podcast voice. So I'm sitting around and saying, so tell me about, and I'll throw a bit of emphasis in because you need to do that with podcasting or and just sit at the table going, who is this leader?

Sadaf Beynon: And as you leave, do you say bye for now?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Bye for now. You are awesome.

It's normally what happens. Sorry, it's a bit of an in joke if you've never listened to one of my podcasts, Sadaf won't let me do it on this show because this is technically Sadaf's show. But at the end of every, not that you would know, because you've still not introduced any yet.

Sadaf Beynon: My time is coming. Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Post COVID. But yeah, on all my podcasts, I always end with you are awesome, create [00:23:00] awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. And then I'll say the guest name, they have to bear it. I've got to bear it and then I'll point to the camera and saying you've got to bear it too. Talking to the list now, it's just one of those things I've just started doing, I don't know, two years ago and just carried on with it's become like a little trademark.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, it has.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, I do that at the dinner table.

You're awesome. Created awesome. It's just a burden you've got to bear. And the person in front of me is looking at me like,

This is very

You to say so. I just don't know what to do with this information.

Sadaf Beynon: But the chicken is good. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, brilliant.

Sadaf Beynon: All so do you have any thoughts

On anything else that he said?

Matt Edmundson: I thought what was interesting was the two things that he said were active listening, the ability to listen and riff off the questions or the ability to riff off of that to create questions. Yeah, that's a natural way. We do conversation and bringing that into the podcast is really good.

And I think that in itself is a skill that when you start doing podcasts, [00:24:00] my advice is, and some people hate this, right? But my advice is always go listen back to that podcast and ask yourself, was there a better question to ask here? Because quite often when we're having conversations with people, we go to that default surface level question, right?

Now, bearing in mind, you've got a time limit on your podcast. So you need to get to stuff quicker. And so asking yourself and training yourself maybe to go beyond the typical question, maybe take it a level or two deeper I think is a really helpful thing, but actively listen To what they're saying to create the next question, but just do a mental check to say, is there a way to make this question more interesting or take it a little bit deeper?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And that might be just thrown in a story for you from your own life. It might be asking a question about something, whatever it's going to be. That's the thing I think you need to do is like, how do I get a better response or a deeper question here? And I thought it was really interesting what Lee talked about in terms of [00:25:00] he stopped asking why, because he thought it was a bit too personal.

Whereas I get that on eCommerce because people, listening to eCommerce, it's very practical based depending on who they're listening to, but you want to get to the practicality of it. Like how do I do this? What do you do? And I think with Leigh's podcast, that makes sense in terms of business.

How do I solve cashflow issues, for example? Let's talk about that. But I'd say for push or what's the story, why is the great question?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Why questions are my favorite.

Matt Edmundson: Cause you're really nosy.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I think it also, it helps you understand the person better because they keep digging into why is that?

And sometimes actually they don't know why. And so they're thinking about it. And yeah,

Matt Edmundson: but actually, sometimes if you start off with the what and the how questions that can actually lead into nicely, if it makes sense for your show to get into the why questions and gets people thinking.

I think sometimes if you leap in with the why questions, there's a bit too much of a quantum leap for people to make [00:26:00] that shift mentally and give you the right answer. And so I think sometimes you have to lead them into that would be a suggestion. But yeah, I think I really like that .

So my takeaway from this was can I ask more what and how questions

yeah, how could I ask more what and how questions, and I'm doing some podcast recordings later, so I might have a little, I'll just see how we go on.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Something he didn't actually say this, but I think as part of his, as part of the journey of being cause he talked about the personal growth that, that comes with it over time.

I was thinking like also being comfortable with silence.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, he did say that. Oh, did he say that? Yeah, he did say that. He was getting more comfortable with silence.

Sadaf Beynon: Sorry. I was, I thought I was listening. But yeah, I think actually that's something really important, isn't it?

Because especially when you're starting out, you're so focused on asking the questions and not allowing [00:27:00] there to be any gaps because you want it to be fluid. Yeah. But it's so structured that.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: It's really interesting, because if you use something like Descript to edit your podcast, there's a button in there, which you can press, and it would remove all the silences.

Yeah. And it will shrink them down to a third of a second, or whatever time you set point three, I think is the default 3. 3 seconds, which is fine.

Sadaf Beynon: For a reel. For

Matt Edmundson: a reel. Yeah. For the short form video content. But for a conversation, yeah. It just makes it super intense. And the lesson here is actually natural conversation has pauses and silence.

So don't be afraid of a little pause and silence. But the most powerful thing about a silence is the guest feels uncomfortable with it. And this all due respect to every guest, obviously it's been on my podcast, but sometimes you just, you're listening to people talk and I know the best question to ask is not a question.

And it's just to sit there silently because they will. [00:28:00] Start to fill it and you can feel like you're getting into something interesting and if I ask a question here, I don't know if that's going to go where it needs to go to. But if I just look at them and just go nod my head, keep it silent, they will 100 times out of 100 fill that silence.

I've never had anyone go, why has it gone quiet all of a sudden? That's a bit awkward, isn't it? No, they just, there's a bit of silence. And so then they carry on that thought and that conversation and you can get some real gold out of that. But I think that's a skill in its own right, because. Silence makes the guest feel uncomfortable, but it can make you feel uncomfortable as the host.

Like again, you've got to fill it. And this was one of the things I learned when I lived in the States when I was 18, took a year out. I was hanging around with a guy called Jack. He was this sort of 60 year old, real Southern gentleman, just a lovely chap, was never in a rush for anything. And quite often you would ask Jack [00:29:00] a question and he would just look at you for 30 seconds.

And when I first got to, when I first met him, I'm like, what's going on? Does he, do I, I don't understand yet. I'd say the question differently or I'd say it louder, I'd word it. And it wasn't because he couldn't hear me. It wasn't because he couldn't understand me. It's just, he needed time to think and that was just his way.

He was not in a rush to give me an answer to my rushed question. And I learned then to be happy. With a little bit of silence between the question and the answer. And my experience with Jack was when he was silent, you usually got a much better answer . It always worked out well. Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Sadaf Beynon: It does. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, silence is golden, which is a bizarre thing in a podcast. A very bizarre thing in a podcast. But yeah, a little bit of silence is a great question. Top tip. Good. I'm aware of time. Look, we've been going 32 minutes, 55 seconds. Are you closing out the show?

Sadaf Beynon: No, you are.

Matt Edmundson: And this is Sadaf's podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Listen, it's been, Lee's [00:30:00] a legend. And we're talking to Lee again next week. We've already ascertained this fact. And yeah, I hope you got a lot out of it. I hope you got a lot out with Lee. Do connect with him. Do listen to his podcast.

Podcast, we'll have a link to Lee and all that sort of stuff in the show notes if you want to, do check it out. Make sure you listen to the full conversation, the full story with this one, because like I say, you want to hear what he has to say about Chris. But yeah, if you want to know more, head over to podjunction.

com. I'm very delicious website. I don't know why. We're going

Sadaf Beynon: with it. Yeah, we're

Matt Edmundson: just running with it. This is great. This is great. So it's been great chatting to you. If you haven't done so already, make sure you like, subscribe and do all that good stuff with the podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from, because we've got more great episodes lined up.

Sadaf Beynon: Delicious episodes.

Matt Edmundson: Delicious. And we don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one's told you yet today, we shall be the first. You are

Sadaf Beynon: awesome.

Matt Edmundson: Create it awesome. It's just a burden you've got to bear. Lee's got to bear

Sadaf Beynon: [00:31:00] it.

Matt Edmundson: Sadaf's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it too.

There you go. We've done it. Are you going to cut this out now?

Sadaf Beynon: No, I won't do that to you.

Matt Edmundson: Brilliant. It might be the only time it ever happens on this show, but we'll see how many more we can fit them in as we go along. But now it's awesome. Thanks for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you next week.

Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com where you'll find more information about how you can join Podjunction Cohort.

Whether you listen while on the go or in a group. Quiet Moment. Thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning and until next time, happy [00:32:00] podcasting.