Audience Engagement and Podcast Growth | Steven Pemberton

Sadaf Beynon [0:06 - 0:16]: Hello and welcome back to Podjunction Podcast, where podcasters learn to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon and beside me is the Usual Suspect, Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson [0:16 - 0:19]: The Usual Suspect. Have you ever seen that movie the Usual Suspect?

Sadaf Beynon [0:19 - 0:20]: Yes, I have.

Matt Edmundson [0:21 - 0:36]: The best thing the devil ever did was to convince the world he didn't exist. Kaiser Sose. Sorry if I have to spoil the movie, but it is a good film. You should definite watch it if you haven't seen it. Anyway, sorry, I got distracted massively there.

Sadaf Beynon [0:36 - 0:37]: Yeah, sorry about that.

Matt Edmundson [0:37 - 0:38]: It was the Usual Suspects.

Sadaf Beynon [0:38 - 0:52]: Yes. All right, so today we've got the fourth and final segment from Steven Pemberton, who is the host of Voice Like a Lion. And in this particular segment, he's explaining his approach to audience engagement.

Matt Edmundson [0:53 - 0:57]: I just wondered if you're going to get that out. Yeah, a bit of a struggle.

Sadaf Beynon [0:58 - 1:07]: So, yeah, in this particular episode, you're going to learn how blending stories with action, actionable advice keeps your listeners coming back.

Matt Edmundson [1:07 - 1:08]: Are you sure he got sleep?

Sadaf Beynon [1:08 - 1:12]: Yes. Way better than yesterday.

Matt Edmundson [1:13 - 1:41]: There's full disclosure for setf. Carries on. She came into the office yesterday like a zombie. It was so funny. It's like you said to me, a stage, you fancy a cup of tea? And I was not convinced I was going to get tea. I thought it was going to come back something completely different. Not even that. Maybe just like water from the sink that you'd been washing the pots up in or something. I don't know. But it was really funny. So I'm glad you got sleep.

Sadaf Beynon [1:41 - 1:43]: Yes. I. I still think it needs to.

Matt Edmundson [1:43 - 1:47]: Filter through a little bit, though. Or maybe you got too much sleep.

Sadaf Beynon [1:47 - 1:48]: Give me another week.

Matt Edmundson [1:48 - 1:53]: Give me another week. Brilliant. Because you're up till 4:00 in the morning, you big dirty stop out.

Sadaf Beynon [1:53 - 1:56]: Yes, yes.

Matt Edmundson [1:56 - 2:02]: I just. I don't know how you did that. I'm sorry. I know we should be talking about podcasting, but I just genuinely, I'm really amazed that you can do that.

Sadaf Beynon [2:02 - 2:04]: Yeah. I was talking with my sister.

Matt Edmundson [2:04 - 2:05]: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [2:05 - 2:13]: And you know, time just kind of runs away with, with us, but. Yeah. And I don't get to. I don't get to see her like face to face and talk that off.

Matt Edmundson [2:13 - 2:16]: Yeah, I get it. She flew all the way over from Canada for like two days or something.

Sadaf Beynon [2:16 - 2:17]: Pretty much, yeah.

Matt Edmundson [2:18 - 2:21]: So I, I totally understand why you did it, but yesterday was funny.

Sadaf Beynon [2:21 - 2:22]: Yes. Sorry.

Matt Edmundson [2:22 - 2:24]: It's like the apocalypse had come.

Sadaf Beynon [2:25 - 2:28]: It's a good thing we didn't do any recording yesterday.

Matt Edmundson [2:28 - 2:41]: Well, we were supposed to. We were supposed to record this yesterday. You're just like, man, let's not. Actually, in hindsight, we should have totally have done it. It would have been really funny. I think our listenership would have gone up massively. Anyway, sorry I interrupted you.

Sadaf Beynon [2:41 - 2:59]: No, that's okay. So we were talking about what we're going to learn, and so the first thing, I'll just go over it again. How blending stories with actionable advice keeps your audience coming back for more and how consistency is key to growth. Something we often talk about on this podcast.

Matt Edmundson [2:59 - 2:59]: All the time.

Sadaf Beynon [2:59 - 3:08]: Yeah. And finally, why repurposing podcast episodes into short form? Content captures attention and drives more listeners.

Matt Edmundson [3:08 - 3:18]: Very good. Yeah, very good. So we're going to get into all of that with the legendary Steve Pemberton. Should we play the clip?

Sadaf Beynon [3:18 - 3:18]: We should.

Matt Edmundson [3:18 - 3:20]: Let's play the clip and then we'll be back here.

Sadaf Beynon [3:20 - 3:26]: Steven, what techniques do you use then to engage your audience and keep them invested in your podcast?

Steven Pemberton [3:27 - 8:38]: So, great question. The way that I do that is I do that twofold. So one is through the show and the other one is, of course, through social media and through the show. The way that I do that is similar to what we talked about earlier is I want there to be stories, I want there to be practical steps. And then normally what I'll do on the show is once I've done those two things where I basically bridge the story to the practical step is I will say, hey, this is how you can implement this step. So I will actually be directly breaking the fourth wall and talk straight to the audience, where I'm saying, okay, so if you are someone who is in this position where you are just starting out and you have not even got on a show yet, here are some steps I would take. So go sign up for this website, their accounts are free to start, and then you just start messaging shows and you get on those shows. That's how I would start getting on podcasts today. And that way it gives them something practical, it gets the audience engaged. And then usually what I'll do, because my audience. And this is also when you start growing your podcast is understanding who your audience is for me, if my. For my podcast, because it's usually small to medium sized businesses, but I do understand that there's also angel investors and some other people is if the podcast is relevant. And what I'll do is I will say, okay, so this is for people who are newer, here's the step. If you are newer, this is what you should do. Now, I also understand there's people on here who are Listening that you have been in business for a very long time, you've been doing podcasting for a very long time and you haven't seen the results yet. Here are some things that I would do to be able to change your podcast from just being something that takes up two to four hours of your week and it actually produces more business, it actually helps grow your social media. These are the things I would do. So what I would do. What you just heard Jim say is that Jim, he does, he does two podcast episodes a week. He promotes it on his social medias at least three to four times a week. And that has grown his podcast from being getting two downloads a month to a thousand downloads a month. So now he's in the top 20%. And just what I, what he's done is he's just done more frequency. So he's done more frequency. And in the terms of doing more frequency and podcasting, as far as recordings go and recordings released, he's also doing more frequency with social media. So of course more things, you put out more opportunities for people to engage with you. So that's what he's done. So if you're somebody who's a little bit further down the road and you're only doing one episode a month and you want to get more downloads, do more episodes. And that's. So I try to, I try to do those two things where I will talk to the audience in terms of newer audience and in terms of people who've been around a little longer, but that's the way that I keep them engaged there. On the other side is with social media is social media is, I want it to be engaging. So of course social media, so when I put it like LinkedIn is my home when it comes to the podcast side. And what I do there is I put one up on my personal profile. It's me as the host. I think one mistake that I've seen newer podcasters make is that they immediately try to differentiate themselves from being the host where they'll host the show. But like voice, like a line, podcast has its own page, has its own Instagram, but they only promote on that stuff instead of promoting on their own page that they've probably been growing for a very long time. It's like if you, if you really mean it and you believe that this is something that you're going to do for at least a little while, it doesn't have to be forever. I'm not telling you to make a lifelong commitment. This is not marriage. What I am saying is to go, go all in, commit, commit that you're going to do it for a while until you discover this is what you really want to do. Put it on your social media. There is if you're unless you're somebody with a giant following. If you're somebody like me that does not have a giant following, it's okay if you make mistakes. If your posts look terrible, that's the best time for them to look bad. But for me, the way I've kept my audience engaged is I'm just always honest. Like when my post is, hey, the reason why I talked about earlier where I had the gentleman who helped Kobe write his last book is I as I get excited on my post is, hey, I just interviewed this guy. He was the co host, the co author of the Mama Mentality. And in his pictures, because he's a photographer, his pictures have impacted me because I played basketball my whole life. Some of my favorite players he's photographed. This guy is the reason why I went all in on basketball. And because I'm excited now, people say, oh well, if he's excited, then that's going to show up in the show. And then on the other side too is short form content. Using your long form content, which is your podcast. So you're at least usually 30 minutes to an hour and you're taking that and you're cutting that up. You're getting the best bits out of it. So there may be a question that you asked the that you're like, man, I feel really great about this question. And they had a really great answer is can you cut that up into one minute segments? Because you have that initial post that goes out that says, hey, this is the guest. This is why I'm so excited to have them. Here's a couple of things. A couple of nuggets that they gave me that changed my life. Go listen to the show and then maybe that same day. So typically I'll do it same day or I'll do it next day is then I will release a short form piece of content that is one of those nuggets. Like this is one of the nuggets that changed my life. And so that way people can get connected and they can go listen to the show.

Sadaf Beynon [8:43 - 8:51]: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson [8:56 - 9:24]: Yeah, should just singing along to the music there. And Sadaf was like, you should keep going. And I'm like, yeah, you really. No, you don't want that. Oh, I like it. There's a little dig at Meta, which, if you listen to the other podcast, you will get the little dig. You're going to have to explain that now. All right, so it was really funny, I thought. Good on you. I thought 10 out of 10 for that one.

Sadaf Beynon [9:25 - 9:29]: Oh, thank you. I don't usually get that from Matt, so that's great.

Matt Edmundson [9:30 - 9:38]: Oh, there's another one. Matt never gives me any praise ever.

Sadaf Beynon [9:40 - 10:05]: So at the end of Matt's episodes on his podcast that he hosts, he likes to say that. He likes to say that we're created awesome. So he talks about the guests being created awesome. He talks about. Yeah, and then he says it's a burden that they have to bear. Right. He says, I have to bear it. You, as the guest, has to bear it. We all have to bear it. So that's where I was going with that. Yeah, it's very good bearing with Matt's singing.

Matt Edmundson [10:07 - 10:26]: I. I was talking about bearing. Bearing. The fact you have to be. You know, you're just bearing awesomeness rather than singing. But okay, I like it. Me. Lucky, lucky. That's good. So let's talk about Steven and his insights into podcasting. So what did you pick up? You took lots of notes.

Sadaf Beynon [10:28 - 10:28]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [10:31 - 10:34]: Yes. Yes, I did. And your point is what exactly?

Sadaf Beynon [10:35 - 10:40]: Okay. So, I mean, I thought it was a great. A great clip.

Matt Edmundson [10:41 - 10:47]: It's gonna be one of those shows, isn't it? I'm really sorry. Ahead of time. It's a really glick joke.

Sadaf Beynon [10:48 - 10:51]: I thought it was a great clip because I chose it.

Matt Edmundson [10:54 - 10:58]: That's such a good reason. I know it's a good clip because I chose it. What's wrong with you?

Sadaf Beynon [10:58 - 11:14]: Yeah, exactly. But I really did like what he was talking about, blending the stories with the actionable advice. Because I think it makes, like, when you're pulling stories in, you're making the episode or that segment memorable.

Matt Edmundson [11:14 - 11:15]: Yep.

Sadaf Beynon [11:15 - 11:29]: And I think it also helps the listeners connect with the guest or the host, whoever's telling the story. And then I think it's also because it's memorable, it's easier to hold on to the advice that's coming out of that and then to be able to apply it.

Matt Edmundson [11:29 - 11:30]: Yep.

Sadaf Beynon [11:30 - 11:33]: I think that's a good technique. It's a good.

Matt Edmundson [11:33 - 11:40]: Yeah, it is. I mean, we've talked about this before. I'm fairly sure we've talked about this before in the show. I. About storytelling. I think we talked about it at length recently, haven't we? Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon [11:41 - 11:41]: With Steven Pen.

Matt Edmundson [11:41 - 12:08]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'm not going. I'm not going completely lunatic tunes here. So, I mean, yes, it is the same old thing, isn't it? Stories work, stories capture people, stories convey emotion and actually bring in the insights of that story is really helpful. I think I mentioned last time, when we were recording, I put a clip on LinkedIn from the Neil Rogers podcast.

Sadaf Beynon [12:08 - 12:08]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [12:08 - 13:26]: About his son, I think. Again, I'm really sorry if I didn't, but in my head that I've just. I've talked about this a lot recently. So he comes on, he talks about his son, who, in effect, he couldn't really communicate with for 30 years. But in the last two years, he has been able to find a way to communicate with his son, who has a form of dyspraxia, who's silent autism. So I had. Had everything in his head, but just couldn't. His brain couldn't form that into words and get it out, if that makes sense. So he couldn't really communicate outwards, but now he can. They found a mechanism where he can do that. And it. It was a very emotional story. I mean, super emotional. And I used that clip on LinkedIn, and it's probably been one of the most responsive clips I've put on for a while because of the emotion of the story. Right. Especially from dad's dads. I mean, just reaching out is, you know, saying all kinds of lovely things because they empathize with the. I mean, as a dad, you kind of go, wow, if you couldn't talk to your kid for 30 years, I'd be. Or couldn't communicate with your kid for 30 years, that would be insane. And so they found that super inspiring. And that's the emotion that you can convey with the story. Just a real small clip. I don't know how long it was, like 90 seconds from the conversation.

Sadaf Beynon [13:26 - 13:26]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [13:28 - 14:00]: I suppose what I didn't do, thinking, listening to Steven's advice, is I didn't. We didn't splice that with his end point in the sense that when I asked him how he coped with this, and he talked about, you know, being positive and being positive means so much, doesn't it? But some of the practical things that he and his wife did, which I thought were quite helpful, I could have sliced that into the story a little bit. But I think on its own, it stood out well enough to make you want to go, as a small clip, I want to listen to the rest of this.

Sadaf Beynon [14:00 - 14:13]: Yeah, I agree. And I think that's what he was talking. What Steven Was saying too, about creating short form content, like taking out memorable key moments to help drive people to the full episode. And I think it would have accomplished that.

Matt Edmundson [14:13 - 14:30]: Yeah, definitely. I should probably check the stats. I don't know how, but I think it's. Yes. You get a lot of comments on the clip and that story in itself. That clip in itself would be enough for me to go, I want to hear this. This guy's going to be inspirational.

Sadaf Beynon [14:30 - 14:31]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [14:31 - 14:33]: This is going to be an insane story that I want to know about.

Sadaf Beynon [14:33 - 14:34]: It was a really good episode.

Matt Edmundson [14:34 - 14:38]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. I bet you. I bet you were good. You never got to record that.

Sadaf Beynon [14:38 - 14:40]: No, I thought, I thought you did great.

Matt Edmundson [14:40 - 14:43]: I really did. Because you were supposed to record it.

Sadaf Beynon [14:43 - 14:45]: Yeah, I was. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [14:45 - 14:46]: And I was lastminute.com.

Sadaf Beynon [14:46 - 14:49]: Yeah. And. But I knew like, you know, you're a great host.

Matt Edmundson [14:49 - 14:50]: Oh.

Sadaf Beynon [14:50 - 14:51]: And I knew it would be, say.

Matt Edmundson [14:51 - 15:27]: Fans and all that. Yeah, it was a really interesting chap and it was such a great podcast. It really was. I really enjoyed it. But his stories. Yeah, just taking those clips out and using those. Really powerful. Really, really powerful. Especially on LinkedIn. I'm sort of experimenting a little bit more with LinkedIn. Yeah, reels are good. You know, like if you do the short form content on. We've done it before, haven't we? We've done short form video on Instagram. We've figured out a few things that you have to do for it to make sense. Like we use scheduling software originally that didn't really work. Although the clips went out on time. They never really got the traction.

Sadaf Beynon [15:27 - 15:27]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [15:27 - 15:38]: So you have to download the clips into your phone, post it through Instagram, on your phone, using their music. Their music. Write your caption. That tends to get more.

Sadaf Beynon [15:38 - 15:39]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [15:39 - 15:46]: More involvement, doesn't it? Doing it from your person. We used to have. I dare say we still have a push Instagram account.

Sadaf Beynon [15:47 - 15:48]: We still have it, but we're not.

Matt Edmundson [15:48 - 16:07]: We're not using it anymore. So now they just go. Or in theory they'll go on my Instagram. So, yeah, those kind of short form clips, I think you have to play the platforms a little bit, which is part. Which is why I think just choose one or two platforms, if I'm honest with you.

Sadaf Beynon [16:07 - 16:08]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [16:08 - 16:25]: YouTube shorts, I'm kind of 50, 50 about at the moment. They were really good. I don't think they're anywhere near as good now. I think YouTube is sort of. I don't know, it just feels like YouTube have gone off the boil a little bit with YouTube shorts. And they're focusing back again on long form content, mainly because the ad revenue is on long form content.

Sadaf Beynon [16:25 - 16:26]: Okay.

Matt Edmundson [16:26 - 17:03]: And YouTube ads are killing it right now. And so a lot of people are turning to YouTube ads and so I think they need the long form content to feed the, to feed the ads. So I think they're getting promoted more. It is complete conjecture. I think someone out there will go, matt, you're talking nonsense. Well, yeah, let us know. I probably am, but I think, I think platforms like LinkedIn, especially for like EP and which is my podcast, e commerce podcast, if you don't know. And then I have a podcast called Push which is about leadership. Those podcasts, a lot of our audience are on LinkedIn.

Sadaf Beynon [17:03 - 17:03]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [17:04 - 17:23]: So LinkedIn is a really great platform for us to use to promote those clips on Instagram is okay. Facebook, I've never even tested with Facebook, so I don't think our audience is on Facebook. I could be wrong, but I've never. Well, as I say, never. We've not really used Facebook for a few years, have we?

Sadaf Beynon [17:23 - 17:26]: A long time. Yeah. We used it for e commerce podcast, didn't we?

Matt Edmundson [17:26 - 17:27]: In the early days.

Sadaf Beynon [17:27 - 17:41]: Early days, yeah. But I think whatever you choose to do, going back to his. The second thing that we were going to talk about was the consistency part of it. You just have to be consistent in it and eventually it will take off.

Matt Edmundson [17:41 - 18:04]: Yeah, that's the hope. I think you. Again, you have to. Social media is a funny one, isn't it? And using these short form clips because on one hand consistency is key, but on the other hand you have to do what Jim Collins said, which is confront the brutal facts. Right. So I think, I mean we've tried short form content and we have been very consistent, but the numbers have been, well, not very good.

Sadaf Beynon [18:04 - 18:05]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:05 - 18:05]: Really?

Sadaf Beynon [18:05 - 18:06]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [18:06 - 19:23]: You're talking a few hundred as opposed to several thousand, which is what you want. Really, you want the tens of thousands. And I think if you're doing consistency but you're still getting low numbers, then something somewhere needs to change and that, that's a good sign. I think the first sign is always consistency. You know, are you being consistent? Because I think platforms like Tick Tock, it used to be, and I don't know if this is still the case. You put a short form content video on TikTok and it's your first one or your first few, they are going to give you so many views because they want you to get addicted to being on the platform. Think, wow, it's so easy to get a shed load of views on TikTok. Yeah, and it's not so easy carrying on from that, but they, they do play the system a little bit. So I think if you are doing something consistently, that's your first port of call. But if you're consistently getting average results, then keep the consistency, just change the parameters. So for us, for example, being consistent but not using post scheduling software, but instead doing it from our own phones, experimenting with things like still images with quotes and stuff like that into zap work, all of those kind of things make a big difference. So, yeah, I think consistency then experimentation.

Sadaf Beynon [19:24 - 19:35]: What do you think, Matt? Are some of the challenges that. Well, what are some of the challenges for maintaining consistency in things like this?

Matt Edmundson [19:35 - 20:44]: I think the lack of results. I think it's not difficult to maintain something that's working well, if that makes sense. It's difficult to maintain something when you don't get the results that you think you should get straight away. So what? And you see that. I mean, the obvious thing here is the gym, right? People start going to the gym, they don't see the results straight away. There's no consistency. In fact, there's just pain. I just really hurt. I don't want to do it anymore. And it's that consistency or I'll go to the gym. Sometimes I just can't be bothered. And so the workout quality is, you know, they track it on this whoop thing, don't they? And so sometimes the whip goes, well done, sometimes it goes, oh, come on, you lazy tyke. Just like sharp. And so it's one of those where I think the results tends to cause you to get disheartened. And this is where I think you have to look beyond the numbers sometimes and there is this fine balancing act. So, you know, with the downloads on your podcast, I think a lot of people stop because they get to episode 10 and they've had four people download.

Sadaf Beynon [20:44 - 20:44]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [20:44 - 21:26]: I mean, and it's kind of like, well, hang on a minute, I'm doing this for four people. It doesn't make sense or I've not seen the results that I want to see. So you then obviously slow down or you'll stop doing all you go, this is not working. And I think that's a shame because I always think the first, the first part of anything with a podcast, the first 20 episodes with social media, the first three or four months, do you know what I mean? All of these things, it's never going to be great. Yeah, but that's where you need to be consistent and experiment and Push through it, and eventually, you know, you get there. It's like that expression, isn't it? No one ever gets thin eating my salad. No one ever gets fat eating a pizza.

Sadaf Beynon [21:26 - 21:27]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [21:27 - 22:11]: It's what you do consistently, day in, day out that maze. So I'd say results are a big problem. So it's known what to manage. Sorry, what to measure. So once you know what to measure. So I never look at podcast downloads. Someone asked me today, how many downloads do you get on your podcast? I have no idea. I genuinely don't care. And it's not the wrong statement. It's not that I don't care. I know on EP they're great. I know with push, they're good. But downloads is not my primary mechanism of measuring success. For me, the primary mechanism, or one of the things that I want to understand is was that a really great conversation? In other words, if I just had that conversation and it was only me and them and I didn't record it, would I still have gone and done it?

Sadaf Beynon [22:11 - 22:12]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [22:12 - 23:00]: And the answer is always yes, because I always learn something, especially on the EP side. You know, in that conversation with Neil Roger, would I do that again? Absolutely. If no one was watching in a hobby, I'd do that again. So that's the great thing that you got to figure out how you define success in what you're doing and measure the right numbers. I think then the second thing is busyness. I think if you mix a lack of results plus a general busyness, people start out in podcasting or they start out in social media thinking, I can do that, and then realize, actually there's a lot of work involved. I mean, social media, I put four cards on the table. There's too much work involved for me to want to do that. Well, I really don't. I'm not motivated enough to care.

Sadaf Beynon [23:00 - 23:01]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [23:01 - 23:23]: And I'm aware of that. So I think we do. What we do is okay, it's there if people want to see it. But to do that well is going to require a lot more work, and therefore I'm not consistent in doing that amount of work. Does that make sense if I want to grow the YouTube channel? I mean, the amount of work Needed to Grow YouTube channel is insane.

Sadaf Beynon [23:23 - 23:24]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [23:24 - 24:26]: So. But again, we hear the stories, don't we? Someone starts a podcast and two weeks later they've got a hundred thousand downloads or whatever it is. So the outliers. And so you measure your success by, well, I've only got four subscribers, plus it's really hard work. And I've got a grind because I'm starting it and everything when you start isn't is just hard work. I've got to go get the guests, I've got to do this, I've got to do that. So I think busyness has a, as a real habit of robbing us of consistency and that's where I think discipline comes in. It's knowing what to work on, what's important. But I'm a big fan of the big rock theory. You know the big rocks, they're looking at me confused. Yeah, you do know the big. So this is if you, you've seen the experiment where they take a big glass jar and they. If you take the big rocks, put the big rocks in the glass jar, then you take the medium rocks, you can put the medium rocks in the glass jar and then you take the small rocks and they sort of go around the space. But you can get a lot in if you do it the other way around. If you take the big jar, put the small rocks in first, then the medium rocks, you're never going to get the big rocks in.

Sadaf Beynon [24:26 - 24:27]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [24:27 - 24:56]: Do you see what I mean? And so it's all about understanding that I have this 24 hour block of time. I have to put the big rocks in first, then I have to do the medium rocks and then the smaller rocks, if that makes sense. And so if you do that and playing your time well, I think it can work. It's when we get shiny object syndromes, when we get overwhelmed, it's when we don't see the results that we don't want to see, that I think we stop being consistent. Does that make sense?

Sadaf Beynon [24:56 - 24:56]: Yeah, it does.

Matt Edmundson [24:56 - 24:57]: You going to add anything?

Sadaf Beynon [24:58 - 25:00]: No, I think you've summed it up really well.

Matt Edmundson [25:02 - 25:16]: We all sound surprised to be fair. So yeah, I think don't let it rob you, don't, you know, keep going, but just be. I think you have to be intentional.

Sadaf Beynon [25:16 - 25:17]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [25:17 - 26:53]: I think if you're going to create something out of nothing, you have to have a plan. You have to know what you're going to do at the start of every day. Yeah, right. And you have to be intentional and without getting overly religious on the whole matter. If you look at the first book of the Bible, the book of Genesis, the earth was without form and void. God got up every day. I just have this image of God getting up every day. Right. Today we are going to do X. So God said whatever and then that happened. So there was something that didn't have form and void. It was Every day there was a clear plan, that plan was executed. It was a logical plan. It kind of went from point A to point B to get the final outcome. And it was. And at the end we had a big rest. And I'm kind of like, okay, this is, this is, this is very straightforward logic that even I can follow. So I think, you know, when, when you're starting something or when something's not clear, when something's without form, when something's void, then that logical plan, that step by step plan, knowing what I'm going to work on today, execute on that plan, that's, I think, where most people. Well, is that where most people. I'd say a lot of people don't know what they're working on at the start of a day. They're just very responsive. But be intentional. This is what I'm going to do today. And then execute on that plan. Those things create tremendous amount of success. It's when we don't know what we're doing, or we know what we're supposed to, but don't execute. That's problematic.

Sadaf Beynon [26:53 - 26:54]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [26:54 - 27:06]: And so that's when you create overwhelm. That's when you kind of feel burnt out because all the things you should be doing, you're not doing. I feel like this is, this is going in a very different direction. Maybe.

Sadaf Beynon [27:06 - 27:07]: Yeah, sorry.

Matt Edmundson [27:08 - 27:10]: No, no, no. It's a fascinating conversation if we can.

Sadaf Beynon [27:11 - 28:01]: Scale back what you've just said. And so if you're, if you're just starting out as, or you've recently been podcasting, or you're feeling burnout, then I think what could be said is that when, when you're first starting, you don't always know. Like you talked about having a plan. So, yeah, have a plan, but you don't necessarily know what issues you're going to run into until you run into them. So having a plan around those. And you were talking about the big rocks, so what are those? And like, if you need tools to help you with those, figuring out what that looks like, or if you need a team that you can delegate to all of those kinds of things. But I think having that purpose in your head, that this is what I want to achieve, even if it gets hard and challenging, I'm going to push through and these are the things I'm going to use. Use to help me get through it.

Matt Edmundson [28:01 - 29:20]: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just have a real clear. Just have a little think about what it. Like we've tried different because we're quite as, you know, we know we're a small team and that to scale, we either need more people or are there tools out there that can help us? We don't. So we experiment with different things. What makes our job easier. Some of them work, some of them don't. Right. Riverside will be one that's currently working. Originally it didn't, but is currently working for us in our sort of processes. But yeah, what's going to help you do that? But again, big rocks, medium rocks, small rocks, super important, you know, and we could do a whole podcast on what they are. Yeah, but I think with podcasting, your big rocks are getting, getting the interviews, getting the episodes out. Your medium rocks are going to be things like short form social media content. Yeah. And then your little rocks are going to be like, you know, transcripts on websites. Do you know what I mean? There's, there's different priorities of what's the most important thing. The most important thing is to get the interview recorded, to execute on that. Know who you want to talk to. If you're doing the interview style podcast, obviously if you didn't a panel or whatever, get the podcast recorded and get it out there. That's. That's your primary objective, right?

Sadaf Beynon [29:20 - 29:20]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [29:21 - 30:41]: And then the rest is just okay, we'll fit these in as and when we can. So that's prioritizations. Maybe another way. But yeah, yeah, very good. That's a fascinating little sidetrack there. All courtesy of Steven Pemberton, who is still a legend. But I do like this conversation. I thought that was a very good question. What stops consistency? Very good indeed. What do you think? Am I talking absolute nonsense or is it actually helpful either way? We know, but yeah, let us know your comments, let us know your thoughts. What stops you being consistent, I think is a really interesting and very, very powerful question. What stops that consistency? What stops you executing? What stops you getting to the end of the week and looking back and going, that was really good. And I think knowing the answers to those questions is a really important. I don't think it's the whole point or the whole strategy, but I think it's certainly part of it. So yeah, definitely have a little think about that. If you are struggling with consistency, what is stopping you and thinking that through? So we'd love to hear from you, actually hear your thoughts on it because I think it'd be a fascinating conversation to keep going. I dare say we will over the coming weeks. Speaking of coming weeks, what's next?

Sadaf Beynon [30:41 - 30:46]: So on Friday, the full episode comes out with Steven Pemberton.

Matt Edmundson [30:46 - 30:47]: Excellent looking Forward to that.

Sadaf Beynon [30:47 - 30:58]: And for our. For next week on Tuesday, we will be having a segment from Mark Asquith, who is from Captivate.

Matt Edmundson [30:58 - 31:23]: Very good. Captivate fm, if you don't know, is the platform that we use for our podcasts. And so we upload all our audio podcasts to Captivate. They are a UK company, and we really like them. Yeah. And so it's cool you got to meet Mark because it's. He heads up Captivate. Right. And so that's a bit of a coup, getting him onto the show. Well done.

Sadaf Beynon [31:23 - 31:24]: Yeah, thank you.

Matt Edmundson [31:24 - 31:32]: Did you just reach out to him and say, come on the show, Mark. Yeah, Skills. It's what. Podcasting is great, isn't it? You just reach out to industry experts and say, come on the show. And Mark's one of those.

Sadaf Beynon [31:32 - 31:33]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [31:33 - 31:34]: So. And was he a nice guy?

Sadaf Beynon [31:34 - 31:35]: He was a nice guy, yeah.

Matt Edmundson [31:35 - 31:37]: Yeah. Did you get on well?

Sadaf Beynon [31:37 - 31:38]: Yeah, I think so. I don't.

Matt Edmundson [31:40 - 31:41]: Mark's like, never call me again.

Sadaf Beynon [31:41 - 31:41]: I know.

Steven Pemberton [31:41 - 31:42]: Right.

Matt Edmundson [31:45 - 31:48]: And so what do you and Mark get up to? What do you talk to him about?

Sadaf Beynon [31:49 - 32:07]: I talked to him about his journey because he didn't start off in podcasting. He's been in it, like, from day one. He goes far back. It was quite interesting understanding it from his perspective, like how the industry is evolving and how he first got into it and why and all that. So all of that will be in our next segment as well.

Matt Edmundson [32:07 - 32:57]: Fantastic. So make sure you, like, subscribe to the show and all that sort of good stuff, because you're definitely not going to want to miss the conversations. Do check out the full episode with Steven. I say the full episode. The full interview is maybe a better phrase, isn't it? So in case you don't know, if you're. If you're new with us, obviously, very warm welcome. The way it works is sadaf. Usually I've done a few. To be fair, you're doing the, you know, the lion's share of them now. Interviews, a guest, someone in the podcast industry. We take that interview, we cut it up into little snippets, and we have chats about it, like today, like how it affects our business and our own podcasts and what we can learn from it. And then we play you the full interview. So you hear snippets of it in the last four weeks, or you've heard snippets of the interview with Steven in the last four weeks, but now you'll get to hear the whole thing, which is usually about 45 minutes to an hour long.

Sadaf Beynon [32:57 - 32:58]: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson [32:58 - 33:41]: So, yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff that we can't get to with the. With the setup that we have because we can't look at every clip. It would be really great to be able to do that, but we can't do that. So we tend to spend about three or four weeks on a guest prior to. Prior to the release of the full episode. Yeah, yeah. So you do check it out. Do make sure you listen to the full episode of With Steven and of course, reach out to him. Do say hello, let him know you heard about him on the show. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. Always go and say, how's it to guests that have had an impact on you? That's my advice. And just let them know where you heard them, because again, that just. I think people want to know. So, yeah, go ahead, Go ahead and do that. But, yeah. Anything else to say?

Sadaf Beynon [33:41 - 33:42]: No, not for me.

Matt Edmundson [33:43 - 34:11]: That's unusual. You're still feeling the effects of the four. Four more 4:00am well, the last dig comes from Matt. It's just a burden. We've all got a bear, right? Brilliant. Well, if you've made it this far, thank you so much for sticking with us. Thank you for joining us this week. Sadaf and I will be back next week, but that's it from the Parivas. Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon [34:15 - 34:48]: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't Forget to visit podjunction.com where you'll find more information about how you can join Podjunction cohort. Whether you listened while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us be a part of your day. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.