Why Chasing Money First Makes Podcasters Quit Early | Max Branstetter

Max Branstetter: [00:00:00] if it's something that you're endlessly , passionate about,

then you're much more likely to have a successful podcast because you're not doing it just for the financial payoff right away, you're doing it because these are stories and insights that you wanna share with the world, and it's people in this space that you wanna connect with Monetizing, I think is a great goal for anybody, but I think it shouldn't be the main goal for a podcast or otherwise you're just gonna be disappointed and it's , an extra uphill battle.

Sadaf Beynon: Hey there. This is Podjunction podcast, the the show where business leaders share how they use podcasting to grow, connect, and build their brands. I'm your host, Sadaf Beynon, and today I am talking to Max Branstetter, a podcast producer, entrepreneur, and host of the long running Wild Business Growth podcast. Max left a stable corporate job to help grow his family business, only to discover a deep love for podcasting. Since then, he's launched Max Podcasting, helping entrepreneurs connect more deeply with their audience by blending great storytelling and sound [00:01:00] quality to build the trust, authority, and momentum that we often talk about on this show. Max, welcome.

Max Branstetter: Thank you so much, Sadaf. This is a, uh, a real pleasure and you've had some of, uh, my mutual friends and, uh, favorite people in the industry on the show as well, so it's on, I already know I'm in great company and we're, you know, 30 seconds in, so I appreciate it.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, max. That's very kind of you. All right, so let's start from the top. You went from a stable corporate job to work for your family business to podcasting. I'd love to hear about that journey and why podcasting.

Max Branstetter: Yeah, it's uh, it's quite the journey. It's quite the. Organic journey. I know the word organic, it's overused, but for me, like podcasting came about really naturally from those, uh, you know, x number of steps there. But so yeah. Um, it was funny, we were, we were chatting before you hit record and the state Connecticut came up because I asked where you'd been around the New York area and you said you've been to Connecticut before.

So my first job outta college was in brand management for a laundry company in [00:02:00] Connecticut. And I'm from the Midwest. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. I didn't know anything about Connecticut except for, uh, the Yukon Huskies we're usually good at basketball. But, uh, ended up staying out there and enjoying it for about three and a half years in the corporate world of, you know, the brand management side of things, the marketing side of things, there were things that I found that I really liked about that time, but there were, there were things that I, I realized I was lacking and I, I felt the need to do something more entrepreneurial and to do something that you kind of had some more creative freedom and you felt like you were building something more.

And it just so happens that, I guess, could. Concurrently is that, I don't know the right way to use some of these words. My family has this family business called Hippo Direct, a mailing list, an email list provider who's been around since 1992. Um, so it's literally been my whole life. They've built this business and so, uh, it was a great time to join the family business and see how we could grow that out more from, you know, the digital side and revamping the website and providing some digital marketing services to clients.

And it [00:03:00] was at that stop at my family business when I stayed there for a few years. Like a year into that, we were thinking of brainstorming ways to market the business and this thing called podcasting kept coming up and coming up and we're like, you know, that feel like we love to talk, we love to connect with other entrepreneurs and people in the business space.

Like that feels, feels like a really cool way to market the business. So like that's how my, you know, to this day, wild business growth. My show where I interview entrepreneurs, that's how that show started in the first place. It was a way to connect with other entrepreneurs. In the small business space and see how they've grown their business, um, how they've turned idea into actually like a real thing and real business.

And so that's how I got into the podcast hosting side. The podcast production side became about, because within months after launching that podcast, you know, this was 2018, people started to reach out and be like. Hey, that's really cool. You have a podcast, uh, can you help me launch mine or can you, or, or, I have a podcast.

I'm sick and tired of editing this thing it takes forever. Can [00:04:00] you help me with the editing and some of the behind the scenes stuff? So it's kind of like, huh, this could be a cool way to help out other entrepreneurs and help out other aspiring podcasters in there. And flash forward to 2020, uh, summer of 2020, you know, there's not much going on there.

Uh. Totally. Uh, totally. That's when I officially went out on my own and started Max podcasting and decided to fully focus on podcast production, and that's what I've been doing full-time ever since. So, you know, about five years now, uh, at the time of this recording, which is pretty cool and, uh, surreal.

Sadaf Beynon: That's very cool and thank you for sharing that story. It is very organic. Yes. I know you hate that word, but I'm throwing it

back at you.

Max Branstetter: don't hate it. It just gets used all the time. Yeah,

we can be as organic as we want to today.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay. I love it. Um, so it sounds like, 'cause you started it, um, with your, with the marketing, with marketing for Hippo direct in mind. So it sounds very strategic from the get go.

Max Branstetter: Yeah. Yeah, it was, and, and I think it was, um, [00:05:00] you know, at that point social media had been around for a while, obviously, like my parents, um, especially my dad who started the business like. They know the, the more traditional marketing, like the direct mail and the email marketing side. Super, super well. Uh, and I was kind of more entrenched and super, you know, gung-ho about the, uh, the digital marketing side of things.

But it was around that time as well. I think it was about a year before that that I listened to my first podcast and my first podcast were all in the sports podcast space, which is funny. Now, before this I was listening to like four different sports podcasts, so,

uh, or four different episodes. So I still love sports podcasting.

From the first time I heard a podcast, I was like, this is a really just unique medium. Like there's some sort of connection. There's like an intimate feel when you're listening to a podcast, uh, or now watching a podcast as well, where like you can, if it's done really well, if it's done right, you feel like you're in the room with that person or in the room with the host in the, in the guest there.

So. There's just something powerful about that medium I thought was pretty cool. And then when you apply it to, oh, what about in the business space? [00:06:00] Uh, or for your standpoint, like, what about in the podcasting space? Like if we can help out other entrepreneurs or if we can help out other podcasters out there.

It's just a really powerful way to, to connect with people and also get your message and insights and, and embarrassing stories about Connecticut across too, so.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, for sure. So with your podcast, are you able to, or have you been using that as a medium for clients for Hippo Direct? Was that that at the beginning? Was that the main name?

Max Branstetter: It, it wasn't like a, it wasn't like that, it wasn't like a hard sell. It was kind of more of a way to brand the business and get the name out there. And you can see, and if you're watching on video, you can see kind of the logo behind me. Like, even though I've moved on from Hippo Direct, um, my dad was kind enough to say like, you could, you know, you can still use the assets for the podcast.

So our, our logo for wild business growth as a giant hippo chumping on the words wild business growth. So that's, that still stayed true kind of just as a node to the branding for Hippo Direct. But I think we always thought of it as like a branding and awareness and kind of, um, uh, a connections [00:07:00] and, and door opening method rather than like, Hey, we're gonna get somebody on and we're gonna hard sell them on HIPAA direct.

Now, of course, there's some guests that we've worked with for Hippo Direct, but it's funny how it's evolved over the years because the focus has always been on interviewing entrepreneurs. And so when I spun it off to be under max podcasting, when I started Max Podcasting, I still kept that focus on interviewing entrepreneurs, even though it wasn't as closely tied to HIPAA direct anymore,

just because.

Me personally, I'm somebody who, you know, grew up with a family business, always been interested in entrepreneurship, even studied that in marketing in college, and I'm just endlessly fascinated and, and, uh, and passionated passionated about, uh, passionate about. How somebody takes an idea and then actually turns that into a reality and then, you know, scales and grows it from there.

Like, I remember learning about it in college, the, you know, the post-it note story or like all these different crazy entrepreneurship stories that are like seemingly by accident or, or the person didn't even think would be a business then now they're like huge successful brands and businesses. [00:08:00] So now it's um, if I were to do a podcast about anything, it would be interviewing entrepreneurs and that's what I still love doing to this day every week.

And, um. The way it ties to Max podcasting now, it's like, it's not strong marketing for Max podcasting. I mean, sometimes I'll put some ads in there, but it's, um, it almost serves in a way, unintentionally as like a giant sizzle reel for our podcast production services as well. And there's, you know, there's so many, you know, uh, approaching 350 episodes now.

So there's a lot of entrepreneurs and insights to pull from.

Sadaf Beynon: That's fantastic, and I love that you do that or you've kept going with it because you're talking to like-minded people and iron sharpens iron, doesn't it? And so

you're constantly learning and growing.

Max Branstetter: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and I have to say, I mean, you know this from the podcasting space and then in the entrepreneurship as well, like entrepreneurs and podcasters, those are kind of the two main people I spoke, I, I speak to are. Just like an endlessly inspiring, uh, group of people. Um, and it, it always turns into a fantastic [00:09:00] conversation and you never know what any sort of interview can open doors for how you can do business together or just who might, you might have a conversation with somebody and then they refer you, refer you to somebody who, uh, you end up doing business with or just as like a cool person to connect with.

Sadaf Beynon: so

When did the idea of Max podcasting come into focus for you?

Max Branstetter: so it was, so if we go to the timeline. So 2018 started Wild Business Growth Podcast

20. 19, like early 2019 was when I like officially started working with my first podcast production client because, you know, had that, had that insight of like, oh, we can, we can start to help people out that way. And it was, the idea at the time was like, all right, let's just start like a small podcast production service for Hippo Direct.

And so that side of the business started growing in 2019. And then as that continued to grow in 2019 and then early 2020,

Sadaf Beynon: hmm.

Max Branstetter: It kept, my dad and I especially kept having these conversations about kind of like podcasting [00:10:00] and all this sorts of thing and um, it became clear as time went on that like, this is awesome and it's a growing part of the business and the podcast is great and kind of has a life of its own now, but.

kind of felt like jammed under the same roof. 'cause you know, HIPAA direct, it's like when you think of HIPAA, direct, people would think of, you know, a mailing list broker, they think of direct mail marketing and they think of mailing list, they think of email lists. Podcasting you can, you know, could be a part of that.

But it was kind of like forced under the same roof. Like there's much more potential for it if I were to spun out, spun it out as a separate podcast production business. So that's where, that's where Max podcasting came. Like the idea for it came, but you know, it took a lot of building up and courage and, uh.

Making sure like everything was in order until like it officially spun out and like, you know, got the LLC set up in, in 2020 and all those sort of things. And actually for the early, you know, for the first year, year and a half, maybe two years of max podcasting, I was still helping out the family business some as well.

So it, it would definitely was, you know, talking about organic was like an organic way to start something. Um, but not quite go full-time with [00:11:00] it yet. But, um. It was amazing Once, once got the website up and then once I started telling people about Max podcasting and like the first blog post I did in September of that year, people start to kind of flock towards you when they know that like whatever your specialty is, when they know what your specializing in.

'cause like people, while I was still a Hippo Direct, people knew I was dig doing digital marketing and there was hippo stuff going on, but not everybody knew that I was starting to do podcast production. And then once I kind of went out. My own started Max Podcasting. He was like, Hey, I'm your guy for podcast production.

That's when people were like, ah, okay. That's, that's what Max specializes in. Maybe he can help us out with their podcast. So it, it was a, it was a noticeable shift once it became a, a separate company of how, you know, the, the uptick in clients then.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. So that happened quite soon then after you started with the family business. That's, that's great. And also actually, going back to what we were just saying about you, um, running or continuing with the podcast, even though it doesn't necessarily have a direct link to Ma Max podcasting, [00:12:00] you do still get to be in the trenches of podcasting.

So helping. Others with podcasting really is useful because you are doing it firsthand. You know it all off firsthand.

Max Branstetter: Totally. Yeah. And, and I'm, I'm sure you see this the same with, with your business and your hosting. I think, I think, um, no matter if you're in the podcasting space, what, whatever that. Looks like for you. I think it's incredibly valuable to be like, have exposure and have experience on, on all sides of it.

So like hosting a podcast, obviously you get really good at hosting a podcast, but also, um, has incredible sch skills for communication and confidence and things you can apply to other parts of your business. But also when you're hosting a podcast and doing it every week, you. Start to realize like what goes into making a good podcast?

What goes into making a high quality podcast? Like what are the areas to improve? So the hostings really important. Um, yeah, I'm pitching myself here 'cause this is, you know, since I took a couple month, what I call podcast paternity leave earlier this year after the birth of, uh, our [00:13:00] daughter. This is the first podcast I've been interviewed on.

So I'm really extra appreciative of, of this experience. And I think being a guest makes you better as a host and then also makes you better, you know, in the podcast production space as well. Just 'cause, you know. What makes a great exper guest experience and what can you do better as a guest? Um, so I think both the hosting and the guesting side is incredibly valuable, and then it helps you as a, as a podcast producer as well.

Um, so it's, it's fun to get kind of all sides of that coin. Uh, I don't even know how many sides of this coin we're up to, but it's very valuable.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, for sure. You were talking about communication and how it really helps you. How would you say your, um, how how would you say hosting has changed the way you show up and approach conversations as a business owner?

Max Branstetter: It's so fun. I, I'll have to go way back for this one 'cause I was like an incredibly shy little kid

and, um, I say that now to like my wife Dana and, and her family and they're like. You were shy. No way. You were shy. 'cause like now I won't shut up and I'm like [00:14:00] the talkative one somehow. Um, so like, definitely was like a long, long process.

I don't think I really like came outta my shell until like later in college and then after college. But, um, so like aside from podcasting, like the, uh, you know, if you take any like business presentations or communications or speaking class in college, I think that's a big help. Um, but as well as like. I got to study abroad in, in London, my junior year of college.

And that experience just being in a totally different environment like I had never been, um, outside of the US before, besides like Canada and Mexico and that experience and like being on your own out there and exploring new countries and cultures was just totally eye-opening for me. And, um, I remember a time of, we, my, my friend Connor shout, Connor booked the wrong airport for us coming back from Barcelona.

So we ended up like having to wake up. Hungover going find it, speak Spanish enough to find a train from Barcelona to this town, Roy, uh, REUS, I don't even know how to pronounce it. It was like an hour and a half train ride, negotiate [00:15:00] that in Spanish and then get there for our little Ryan air flight. And, um, and we made it.

But after the experience, I was like, wow, if I could do that, like I can kind of tackle whatever, you know, like I felt like on top of the world

podcasting. I think it, I mean, it goes without saying that it. It makes you a better communicator and it gives you more confidence, and so you get to brush up on your skills.

And actually, if you're involved in podcast editing, especially for your own podcast, it's even better because you painfully notice how many ums you say and how many filler words you use. And I have this terrible habit of saying amazing all the time, or what is it? Instead of, especially, I often say especially, and like my Aunt Mindy called me out on it before, like there's all these little word quirks that you realize on yourself, but, so I think that's it.

It helps you to be, you know, better speaking. It helps you to, like, you start to want to seek out speaking opportunities. Like I got to speak in, uh, podcast movement in Denver a few years ago, which was awesome.

But [00:16:00] also I think it. It gives you the confidence, like when you're reaching out to guests, it's kind of like a little elevator pitch or cold pitch that you're doing all the time, and you do the same for your show.

It gives you the confidence to reach out to more people as a guest standpoint, but also from a potential business standpoint. You get better at crafting that message and, uh, doing quote unquote online elevator pitches all the time. So I think it's, it's amazing things that it can do for your, your communication and confidence.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, absolutely. And actually you're talking about listening back on your shows. I mean, that takes a lot of guts.

Max Branstetter: Well, that's it. I, I would say that's, that's a good thing about editing your podcast or being a podcast production is, it is true. Everybody hates the sound of their own voice. But I think within, like the first week of editing wild business growth,

you know, I did like five episodes that first week and was like, alright, I'm kind of used to my own voice now.

So I, if you throw yourself into the fire, you can definitely, uh, get better at it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, for sure. Um, max, one of the things you've said is, um, not on, not on the podcast yet, but I've seen it on your website that, um, storytelling is a big [00:17:00] part of what you love. How did that show up in your early podcasting journey?

Max Branstetter: Oh wow. Well, it relates back to, you know, the story of the entrepreneur, the,

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: the, the prototypical entrepreneur. I, I guess who, who has the. The idea and the, the boldness to kind of go out on their own, but also the, the actual business idea of, hey, there's, there's a problem. Like, you know, let's say they're, I'll just use some random example.

Um, I interview, I also geek out about entrepr, like, um, I call 'em really wild entrepreneurs, but really outside the box, like businesses you don't see every

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: I interviewed a guest for my show named Jerry Miller, who's the founder of Farmers only.com. And so I don't know how many people are familiar with farmers only.com.

It was definitely very focused on like the Midwest and the us, but growing up there would be commercials all the time about [00:18:00] farmersonly.com, their ta, their tagline, you don't have to be lonely farmersonly.com. And it's what it sounds like. It's a dating site for

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: and. It was just obscure enough that like you have to drop everything and pay attention in the commercial and be like, is this, did I just see that?

Is that really happening? Anyway,

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Max Branstetter: Jerry Miller was learning about the online dating world and dating sites like that, and he realized there's a gap in the market where there's. All these, you know, the opposite of city slickers as he calls it. All people that are farmers and live in more rural areas that are having a hard time meeting people and having a hard time finding, you know, romantic partners and spouses and that, and there were all these dating sites popping up and nobody was catering to them.

And so he had that idea to be really unique from that standpoint. Um, what if we just. Created a site for farmers only.

And so he did that. And so the storytelling of like the way he tells his story and uh, how he [00:19:00] filmed the viral commercials and how he got that, how got to break through the clutter of the online dating world, that stuff always inspires me.

But just the journey of itself, of going from idea to to reality, um, I think is really, really powerful. And I think podcasting as a medium lends itself to incredible storytelling because. You know, obviously now with, with video, you can still have some of the same effect over video, but really in traditional now audio podcasting, my favorite part of podcasts as a listener is that I can be doing something else while I'm hearing these stories and while I'm listening and while I'm learning.

And so it started probably while I was like cleaning my apartment or going to the gym or something like that. Uh, but now it's even, you know, if it's, uh. A task that you don't have to think about as much. You can listen to podcasts while you work. And so the fact that you can, like the fact that you can have these amazing nuggets and, and stories in your ear while you're doing something else and like just ha it makes the, it makes whatever you're doing that much better and [00:20:00] it helps you improve and, uh, grows your brain, we'll call it, I think is, uh, such a, it is just such a great medium for storytelling.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Yeah, you're right. And it is actually, if you're to be in someone else's ear while they're, while they're busy doing, you know, getting on with life, doing whatever it is, is such a privilege as well, isn't it?

Max Branstetter: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's such a, who was it? It was somebody at podcast movement that, uh, keynoted a few years back that was talking about how like that the perfect, like podcasting at its best is just kind of like when you feel like. You, uh, it's almost like sitting down with a good book, like when you find a really good book and you're sitting down and it just kind of takes your mind to another place and you have that warm, fuzzy feeling.

Same thing applies to podcasting, where it's like, where you feel that story and not to be vivid, but the, the host and the guests are just kind of nestled in your ear.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Max Branstetter: so, so gently, so softly in your ear and telling those stories, and you just kind of have. It's a deeply intimate experience because you, yes, [00:21:00] of course you can listen to podcasts with others, but you don't need to, like you, most of the time people listen to podcasts on their own.

So it's a connection between you and that host and the guest and that they're just little nestled in your ear. Um, it's really, really special.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, you're absolutely right. Love the nestled in your ear. Um, max, you've helped a wide range of business leaders

launch and run their own shows. What's something most people think they need to get right, but maybe focus on too early?

Max Branstetter: Oh, I, I, I think the, the whole monetization piece I think is really, really tricky. Um, and it's awesome if you can monetize it, uh, especially early on, but I think it's, it's very, it's very easy to tell who is like. And what entrepreneurs and what brands are, are more likely to last in last in the long run from a podcasting standpoint versus those that are kind of gonna burn out or quote unquote pod fade pretty early.[00:22:00]

And uh, I think that it comes down to monetization. Not who's able to monetize or not, but when you think about your goals for the podcast, if your main goal for the podcast is to monetize it right away, I think you're much more likely to quit. Because vast majority of podcasts aren't gonna monetize right away.

It takes a long, long time to do that. And if they monetize, it's not gonna be the amount of financial success that they're hoping to achieve from the podcast. So I think that like if all your goals for your podcasts are totally dependent on the financial side of things, I think you're much more likely to quit your podcast.

On the flip side of that, if you. Speaking about something for whether it's yourself, your personal brand, or your business that you are like salivating over the topic. Like you could talk about this forever, like you and I podcasting, for example, if it's something that you're endlessly passionate, passionate about, just making it more words.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.[00:23:00]

Max Branstetter: Then you're much more likely to have a successful podcast and be able to have a podcast that you can come every week or every day, or every other week. However you do it in the long run because you're not doing it just for the financial payoff right away, you're doing it because these are stories and insights that you wanna share with the world, and it's people in this space that you wanna connect with and share in the world.

And that's gonna keep you going. Even if you're the, your podcast numbers aren't where. You want them to be. And of course everybody wants more downloads and retention time and all that. So I, I, I think it's, monetizing, I think is a great goal for anybody, but I think it shouldn't be the main goal for a podcast or otherwise you're just gonna be disappointed and it's a, an extra uphill battle.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Can you, do you mind going into a little bit more detail about why monetization and or focusing on that in the early days is, um, not a good, good idea? Some of the reasons behind that?

Max Branstetter: Yeah. And to be fair, I think if you can. There's kind of another myth there of like, you need, you know, 10,000 downloads per podcast in order to, [00:24:00] um, you know, make money from your podcast. And that's also not true. Like you can, uh, I, I think starting a brand new podcast is, is a great time to get sponsors because you can say, Hey, we're starting that.

Like, these are the first episodes you could be part of the podcast early on, and then you can make sort of more. Not industry standard download number deals, but you could,

you know, make more off the, off the record or off the table, whatever the term, custom deals for that with a, a relevant sponsor for that.

So I think there is opportunity there. I think in the world of monetization, I think it's, it, it's far more likely to make money or like the money that you want to see. Using your podcast as like a marketing tool and using it as a tool for your products and services that you sell, uh, as opposed to just making money from like the sponsorship ship side of it.

So like whatever your business specializes in, let's say your business specializes in, I was just doing laundry earlier, so hampers for [00:25:00] baby clothes. If you have a business that specializes in hampers for baby clothes. You could come out with an awesome, like creative podcast idea that talks about, you know, like interview mothers and fathers as they share like their, um, nightmare blowout scenarios for their kids' clothes or something like that.

Like you could add a lot to your brand and like, not directly hard sell your baby hampers. And that could be an awesome podcast that people love to listen to. And then. There's kind of the halo effect where like, well, if they like your stories, they like you, they'll like your brand as well. And then maybe you'll get some listeners, you know, some people to, to buy your ha baby hampers from that.

Um, which is not a client by the way, but that sounds like an awesome podcast.

But so I think. If you think about it that way, like think about like how you can use the podcast to, you know, as a tool for, for branding awareness and, and, and marketing and whatever your product or service you sell, you can kind of integrate it that way without being too over the note, you know,

on the nose hard selling it.

But I think, I think that's far more reasonable [00:26:00] than doing like, um, oh my God, we, you know. This podcast isn't worth going forward with unless we get, you know, three sponsors per episode by by 10 episodes in. I think that's just like a really, really challenging thing.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're right. And I've, I've heard like, you know, with, in this podcast, spoken to several different people who have said that it can take up to two to three years for your podcast to grow organically. There it is. That word again. And, um, and get established.

Max Branstetter: Yeah, it can, I, I think podcasting is just a. You have to have that long-term mindset. And I think that's why the, the passion piece is so important

because you're, I mean, it's the same thing if you're starting a business, like if you're starting a business, it has to be an idea and like a problem and solution that really fires you up anyway.

You're gonna, otherwise you're gonna wake up the next day and be like, oh man, like I, I have a full day of work. I have to, like, I have so much to do. Like you, you have to keep that passion central. And I think it's. And obviously podcasting ties a [00:27:00] lot to entrepreneurship. Um, there's a lot of parallels there that the same thing applies in the podcasting space where it's like this is a long-term medium.

Very, there are very few stories of overnight success in the podcasting space and if. If there is like a crazy amount of downloads overall, it's often because there's like either a, a huge brand that has a huge EML list or um, a huge name celebrity that has like millions of followers that's sharing this out to their audience.

Like for, for the vast majority of us, it's gonna take a long, long time in order to build that and like organically and, and healthily build a show overall. So you have to keep that long-term mindset and say, Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna do this for a while. We're not gonna be too tied down to metrics at the start.

Um,

let's just keep having fun and talking about what we wanna talk about.

Sadaf Beynon: That's right. That's right. Thank you, max.

Um, on the flip side of that, you know, people thinking stuff that they can do or too early possibly, um, what is something people tend to overlook when starting a podcast? What's been your experience?

Max Branstetter: Ooh, I think the. [00:28:00] Quality piece is incredibly important. And that, I mean, there's a whole, we could do a whole separate inter, uh, episode on, on podcast quality. But,

um, there's kind of two fields of thought in the podcasting world. One is like, all right, let's just get everything and like get this up. And it's gonna be, you know, not high quality those first episodes, but let's just get it out there.

And then there's like the total other side of the spectrum that's like, could be the potential client that like. It takes months and months or even years to get started because we gotta make sure everything is perfect. And I think there, there's kind of a sweet spot in the middle of there where like, you should be, you should be thoughtful about quality early on.

Like make sure you have a high quality mic, make sure you have a good camera, um, and make sure you have like all the ducks in a row as far as like your podcast goals and what you wanna, the format, structure to be and all those sorts of things. But I think sometimes there, there's, there's. There's such a hunger to get the podcast out into the world that not [00:29:00] enough thought goes into making sure that, like, you sound as good as you should, you know, like, like the microphone is incredibly important

as well as like, what is, what's the hook with your show?

Like, what's different about it from like a format and structure standpoint? Like what's, what's shareable or bingeable about your show? Um, so I think quality from like a. Technical quality from actual gear, like make sure you put time into that, not years and years at time. Make sure you put time into that.

But also the quality of like the actual episodes, you know, the format and structure, the flow of it. What, what makes your podcast different than any other podcast, especially in the really crowded interview space? Like what, what makes it different out there? I think you, you have to be really intentional and, and really outside the box creative with that stuff.

Uh, early on.

Sadaf Beynon: So you talked about technical quality and then, um, the content quality as well, right? So are you, are you saying that get rid of those [00:30:00] filler episodes that you put out just because you need to get an episode out, you know, to keep yourself consistent and just make sure instead that each episode really resonates with what you're trying, what your goal is. For the podcast and, um, making sure you're resonating with your audience.

Max Branstetter: Well, I think it, it's okay to know that like the first episodes aren't gonna be your best episodes, just by the nature of podcasting. Like we all get much better at podcasting. The more we do it. It's like any other task or hobby or skill like that. I, I think you should be. You should spend the time to say like, alright, we, you know, it, it, it needs to be this level of good before we get it out there.

So for like, when I'm thinking back to where before I started wild business growth, um, my Aunt Mindy, who's got our second shot of this episode, Mindy and I, uh. Would do like a couple of test episodes when we were starting it out and I think back then it wasn't even called Wild Bus. It was like, welcome to the Run Wild podcast.

You know, it [00:31:00] was like a totally different,

uh, name like that or half different name. And we would, we would just get used to like me hitting the record button and us chatting a little bit and just speaking to a Mike. And I think many podcasters. Before starting their podcasts aren't even familiar with speaking it to a mic before.

Like that's a whole new thing. I like, I had the, the gut feeling of like, I need to speak like an announcer and like talk like this all the time and like be like a spammy sales voice or radio announcer voice. And I think it, doing a few practice recordings like that can go a long, long way to making sure that.

To reminding yourself that, Hey, I can just, I can just speak like my natural voice and then mic will pick it up and

get used to that tone. So I think, I think like the testing out is, is really important from that standpoint. And then it just, if you can take like that extra step of doing like one or two brainstorms before you launch a podcast, specifically focused on are there any fun, unique segments that.

We can put in, [00:32:00] um, I call 'em the bookends, like the very start and the very end of the episode. Like, what can you do to do something extra creative and extra, you know, even ownable from a branding standpoint that people look forward to at the very start or very end of each episode. So I think like on the, from the creative, the, the content standpoint, I think those extra steps early on before you hit record, um, for the, for the first official podcast, I think that makes a big, big difference and big difference on those first impressions, those first episodes.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, and I guess it also gives listeners something, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Um.

Max Branstetter: Organic. No, I'm just kidding.

Sadaf Beynon: that's the word I'm looking at. Um, you know, because they're, they're coming to expect the same, the same opening, the same ending,

and so it gives them something, I,

I can't think

Max Branstetter: loyalty. Yeah. It builds loyalty and um. Which, I mean, loyalty is incredibly important to the, to the lifeblood of a, of, of a podcast. So it builds that. It gives that, and, and, and also the, uh, I'm sure anybody who works in the [00:33:00] podcasting space or is in the podcasting space knows that if, like you've heard about, you have to be consistent.

Like if you're dropping, like we drop Wednesday every week. If you're dropping Wednesday every week, like drop Wednesday every week. Don't be like a random Monday episode or Friday episode, or take four months off without telling anybody, you know, it's like.

The consistency is there too. Um, and so being consistent with like great creative content is, is where the, that loyalty comes in and, and builds the show, builds the audience.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. So how do you guide your clients from. Just sharing content to actually connecting with the audience.

Max Branstetter: I, I, oh, that's a great question. I think the, by the way, I've said oh, a lot in this episode. I don't know where that came from. So maybe I'm, I'm rusty on my guest interviews. I think the, I think the connection with the audience at first will come if you are consistent about speaking in like your natural voice and then that, that passion that you have for whatever your topic is, whatever your specialty is that flows through.

Like if [00:34:00] that's, if that's apparent, if you can hear that on the mic, if you can see that on YouTube that. Helps to create that connection with the audience. I think in addition to that, there's some really cool things that you can do to, to build that relationship more one-to-one. Uh, of course social media is a great way of connecting, you know, building out pages for your podcast or, or fueling those con fueling your business page with con podcast content.

Um, you know, that's where in the comments and dms and stuff like that, you can actually engage with listeners. So that's pretty cool. But I think starting an email newsletter for your podcast is a, is a great idea for any podcast. And even though it's like. Like podcasting, it starts out very small and it's hard to build over time.

Um, you know, it doesn't matter if you have three subscribe subscribers, if you have three subscribers that you've been sending an email to them every week for five years, that like you're an important part of, of their week. Um, and it's a good reminder to check out that podcast that week as well. So of course you can get really, really creative in newsletters as well.

So there's, there's that way of engagement with the audience. And then something that I do from time to time [00:35:00] and then I really should start doing it more. Um. Certain episodes of wild business growth, especially if it's like a really, really unique story or like a, a really well-known brand.

I'll post on, you know, LinkedIn and then Facebook more for, uh, and then used to be Twitter, but LinkedIn and then Facebook more for like the family and friend side of things of saying like, Hey, I'm interviewing the founder of, you know, XXXX this week.

Uh, what questions would you ask them? Or I, I interviewed, um, uh. I interviewed someone who, this is like a really outside the box. One has a whole business and consulting business about analyzing dreams and like interpreting dreams and being, things like that. And I've just always been fascinated by dreams.

But part of that episode I like reached out on Facebook and LinkedIn like, Hey, like interviewing this person, uh, sh. Send me a recent dream that you had, like would you like to be your, have your dream interpreted on the show? And we got some really, really good [00:36:00] input from that. And then what's cool is like you take those inputs and then while you're interviewing the person, you feature those questions.

And maybe what I like to do is carve it out as a separate segment saying when we have some wild listener questions here,

and like integrate those questions from your audience. Into the show and the next thing you know, like your, your listeners are like, they have their question answered on the show. Or even, you know, if you, if you're really, really tech savvy, you know, you can have your listeners call into the show and have stuff directed

answer directly as well.

So like, I think any opportunities like that to, to get your audience like on the show and helping to create the content. I think just. Improves that connection that much more and it's just like a really cool thing. Like more likely than not that that person is at least gonna listen to this show, but more likely than not, they'll, they'll share it out or give you some love on social media as well.

Like it's a really cool way to integrate everything.

Sadaf Beynon: it is. Yeah. And I, I love how you're asking friends and family, you know, what, what questions would you ask Soandso, having them on the show, 'cause it, it [00:37:00] helps them get invested in the show before it's even recorded.

Max Branstetter: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Who, like, if anybody's ever been like, uh, just had a little spot where they were like a person walking the street and got featured on the news or like got, got to call into some radio show or something like that, just like. If people go crazy, like, oh my God, like sharing this out. Like, oh, I can't believe I was on the news, or I can't believe about that.

Like, the same thing applies in a different sense, same sort of, uh, mindset and, uh, kind of buzzes and enthusiasm applies in the podcasting world.

Sadaf Beynon: How much does storytelling factor into your process when you're helping your clients craft their episodes?

Max Branstetter: It's a huge part of it, the. First of all, I, I always start with, with clients and really ironing out like, what are the goals for starting your podcast? Why are you doing this in the first place? 'cause it's really, really important. Like, some of my clients want to use their podcast. Like for example, I work with a, a magazine on the West coast and they're using the podcast, you know, [00:38:00] they've, they've been around for 40, you know, 50 years almost.

And. They use the podcast as like another way to, well, a, a way to, you know, interview really, really cool people in the industry, but also as a way to connect with their audience on another level. 'cause they're adding that audio and, you know, video clip form as well. So, so that's a, so, so, so for them that goal is like kind of that other level of connection.

I have other, another client who's like a marketing branding agency and they often share their podcast episodes with potential clients and say, Hey, I know you're struggling in this area. Listen to this deep dive we did. You know, there's 40 minutes of this that will help you a lot. And they kind of view their podcast as like the tiebreaker when somebody's choosing between working with them and then working with another sort of agency or consultancy in the space.

So there's many different

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: uh, think reasons to start a podcast. I just think whatever the podcast looks like, whatever it sounds like, all the different touch points of the, the artwork, the [00:39:00] music,

um. If you're doing video, like what the studio setup looks like, like that, it all should ladder back to what are those goals for the podcast.

And so I think that's incredibly important. And as it relates to storytelling, without a doubt, like your, your story's gonna come across and in the podcast that you do, um.

I think storytelling is like entrenched. It's naturally entrenched in one of those, one of those goals. It's like your, your why.

Another word that gets overused a lot. Your why. Find your why. Find your organic why, uh, it, it, that why is like, why you're, why you're starting the podcast in the first place. What, what is it about your business and what is it about your expertise? Um, like we work with the college admissions business.

They're really, really good at helping students and working with the parents as well, like helping students get prepared for college and NA nailing their A-C-T-S-A-T tests and things like that. [00:40:00] So like their expertise is exhibited in every single episode. And within that, if you want to get met at, like, they, they, they.

Work in like minor case studies and little stories within each of the episodes of, you know, working with actual students and like how this can help 'em, things like that. So I think it, storytelling to me ties really back to the goals and ties back to like the, the why of why you're organically launching your podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Okay. Um, and then you also mentioned it's not just the storytelling, it's also the structure of it. So it's every asset and the music and everything all ties back into your organic why.

Max Branstetter: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 'cause it should, because if you think about it, like the first impressions of a new podcast, you, it's like, you know, the high level stuff is like the podcast name, and the podcast artwork, like the square cover

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah.

Max Branstetter: and those things. like first glance, at like a, you know, in a split second impression of seeing what those are,

[00:41:00] those if done right should fit the feel of the show.

They should let you know exactly or at least the main topic of what that show is about and the main story of what that show is about. So it's important that everything kind of lines up in those, you know, in that area from the, from the creative standpoint. Um, it should all tie back to, to what those seemingly more abstract goals are.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Uh, max, I'm conscious of time. I know I'm using up a lot of yours, but, um, last question. So you're in the trenches with your clients and obviously still hosting your own podcast. So for business leaders who are listening to this podcast and are curious, but feeling overwhelmed, what's the one mindset shift they need to make before they start?

Max Branstetter: Oh, so curious, but overwhelmed.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: Which I think is a great place to be. There's a lot of

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Max Branstetter: there. I think on the, the podcasting [00:42:00] side, uh, I think how you get over overwhelm is by planning and being extremely organized. Like we all have room to be more organized. But I think if you're doing, if you wanna start an interview show, for example, or you're hosting an interview show.

I always tell people that like, podcasting is never stressful unless you like need to find a guest last minute for your podcast. Like if you stay, what I say, the sweet spot's like one to two months ahead of schedule in terms of finding your guests and have episodes lined up, or at least whether they're recorded or at least, hey, you're recording this the next few weeks, it's, you know, we have an interview date set.

It makes things so much less stressful, so much less overwhelming. Being organized from the guest standpoint is incredibly important. If you have a show where you aren't interviewing guests, I think the same thing applies. Where with our content, how do we stay at least high level or like out, you know, high level outline, how do we, how do we at least know what we're gonna talk about for [00:43:00] the next month or two?

I think that is incredibly important and. I'm somebody who, you know, I said like, I, I used to be shy. Now I won't shut up. I'm kind of the, the same trend from the organization standpoint. Like I used to, I used to need extra help in fifth and it was fifth grade. Um, shout out Mrs. Boley. Uh, I was like one of the, the few kids in the class that kept forgetting about homework assignments and I like wasn't writing them down and I wasn't paying close attention to 'em.

And so she would like. With me and a few other kids, she started making us, um, like hang after class and like she would check our, uh, our notebook, whatever to say, Hey, do you have the assignments written down? And so I started doing that and then I like started getting really good at never missing homework assignments again.

And then, um, in the corporate world, I, um, I had some, some bosses that were incredibly detail oriented and I. It got really detail oriented then, which is of course helpful in [00:44:00] the podcasting space as well. So now I'm like very organized, probably too much, too much. Uh, my wife would say, uh, kind of obsessed over little things, but I think in the podcasting world, and then with just business entrepreneurship in general, it really, really helps.

Like to me being organized means being less stressed and having less overwhelm. So the more you can be organized with your podcasts. The less of those bad things you'll have and the more likely you'll be to sustain it and have success with it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, totally. And also, once you get going and the, and you, and you're warming up to, to podcasting, to hosting and getting your head around all those things, you just, you know that, that, that comes with time, doesn't it? You don't have to be perfect from the get-go.

Max Branstetter: Right? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's a, it's amazing. Um. It's amazing how much the room that we have all to get so much better. And again, that, uh, suffering through all, seeing your own ums in your own

behavior on, on video and [00:45:00] audio is a great trainer.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, totally, totally Max. This has been such fun and insightful for me. Thank you.

Max Branstetter: Of course. Thanks so much. Sadaf. This is awesome. Big fan of your show and was listening to many episodes beforehand. And you get a, I'm not saying this 'cause I'm biased now, but you get awesome guests and like you have a, you have a great focus and I always geek out when there's, there's podcasts about getting better in, in podcasting and podcast production, so, so you're doing an amazing job with it.

Oh, and I used the word amazing

Sadaf Beynon: You.

Max Branstetter: man.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, max. You're very kind. Um, before you go though, if any of our listeners want to reach out and learn more about your work or connect with you directly, where should they go to do that?

Max Branstetter: Yeah, I really appreciate that. So the easiest way is maxpodcasting.com, so it's all one word as it sounds, max podcasting. And that's where you can find all the links to Wild Business Growth, the podcast, uh, the Podcasting to the Max Newsletter, which is. A mix of podcasting and entrepreneurship tips and, and puns that I share out every Thursday.

And then, [00:46:00] uh, anything, uh, all my socials are there as well. So maxpodcasting.com.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. To those listening in, thank you for being

here. All the links that Max just mentioned can be found in the show description, and if you're listening and are curious about using podcasting as a strategic tool to grow your business, build authority, or connect more deeply with your audience, I hope this episode has sparked some ideas or even given you that nudge to explore it further. Thanks for listening, and bye for now.

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