The Secret to 1400 Episodes Without Burning Out | Robert Plank

Robert Plank: [00:00:00] Instead of saying, I'm just burnt out. Well, maybe the, the better question to ask is like, how do I I not be burnt out or how to make the burnout work for me? when someone says that they're burnt out, to me that means that you keep performing input task a. Then output Task B is just like not changing, right?

It's not what you want. It's like they say like you're, you're spinning your wheels, right? So instead of just giving up how do you change that?

Sadaf Beynon: Hey there. This is Podjunction podcast, the show where business leaders share how they use podcasting to grow, connect, and build their brands. Today I'm speaking with Robert Plank.

He's a podcasting systems expert. Prolific host of the marketer of the Day podcast and founder of DFY Podcast. With over 1200 interviews and a business built around helping thought leaders turn their podcast into a powerful marketing engine, Robert brings deep insight into what it takes to podcast with consistency, clarity, and purpose. Welcome to the show, Robert.[00:01:00]

Robert Plank: Happy to be here. How do I say your name? I wanna make sure I get it right.

Sadaf Beynon: Not a problem. It's Sadaf.

Robert Plank: Sadaf, nice to meet you, Sadaf, and glad to be here.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Thank you. I've really been looking forward to this. All right, so Robert, I wanna jump in. Let's start from the top. What first drew you to podcasting?

Robert Plank: Needing to stand out. It's, it's so easy to hide in your shell. And then, but, and that's great short term, but then long term you feel jealous, envious. You wonder like, why, why is everyone out there networking and making friends? And here's little l me getting left out. I'm hiding behind a computer screen.

And there was the this need to. To network and make new friends and, and go out to conferences. And then, and you remember those days, right? You'd get on a plane and if there was like a three day conference, it'd really take five days 'cause there's the travel time and there was just a lot of wasted time.

And then things in the world have gotten so crazy and we've got wifi and smartphones and streaming and the pandemic and all these things kind of happened [00:02:00] in, uh, you know, it just all sped up. Then it turned into, well, is it really worthwhile, like going across the country to do like a networking event?

Well, sure, sometimes, but you wouldn't wanna do it every week. And now there's all these opportunities available online for networking, for face-to-face with podcasting, and now instead of. Going to like a, a networking event, uh, every week or every month, you can go on, you can do, you know, dozens, hundreds of, of podcasts.

And as far as making friends and developing relationships and all that good stuff that, like some people seem to do naturally, but the rest of us don't. When you're looking for like, uh, a sustainable, repeatable, deliberate way to grow these relationships, podcasting, right? You get on podcasts, you have podcasts, it's, it is what makes the world go around these days.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, you're right. I mean, tech has really changed the landscape for

businesses, hasn't it?

And I guess like it's probably, um, been, [00:03:00] um, maybe become more obvious since the pandemic.

Robert Plank: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. And then, but it's important to do something with it, right? Because.

We, we've all had that friend that likes to play with the toys, right? They, they get a new motorcycle and they just have it in the garage, and they just rev it up and they don't use it, right? They get the latest computer, the latest smartphone.

You think, well, that's great for you to kind of spend money on, but what about making money? What about growing your business? And so there's. There's definitely that need for, uh, dialing into the best AI and technology. But, but hey, how are you gonna help people and how are you gonna put it to you? So it's like there's, there's that need to take that, that, that imperfect action and say, well, hey, I've got my equipment, got my microphone, got my camera, got my Zoom or my riverside now, now let me go and put some mileage on it.

Right? Put it to use.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Robert, before um, podcasting became your business, what was the moment you realized that, um, it was really working [00:04:00] for you?

Robert Plank: When I needed to go to one of these conferences I'm talking about, and I didn't have enough sick days. I, I had, uh, a nine to five job. I worked at a university because I, I thought that I needed something safe, right? I thought I needed to build my resume. It was all this. Old fashioned kind of thinking, and I would use all of my vacation days, sick days to go out there and go to conferences, and I just, I couldn't make the schedule work.

I was there and I, I, I can't remember even remember my, my salary. I think it was like. 36,000 or 41,000, uh, per year at my job. And then that month I'd made 32,000 to $500. So I was got to the point where the business in a month was making as much as the nine to five was in a year. And I was like, so I am putting off the business.

I'm delaying the business. I'm not going on this trip because of this job, just for, for what stability. And so I looked at my bank account. I, I [00:05:00] felt a little bit of the, the confidence and I told myself before I talked myself out of it, I went to my boss's boss's office

and I, I said, I'm, I'm quitting. And then, you know, put in my notice, of course, didn't quit right then and there.

And, but then I was, that was kind of my window. 'cause I was, I was barely able with the, the, um, I think I worked something out where like I put in my notice, I went off to this event, I came back, I finished up the, the documenting my job activities for the next replacement. And then I was like. Hey, let's do, let's, let's, let's take a risk because life is short.

And many times we tell ourselves that, well, we're, uh, we're doing like the, the safe, stable thing. But you know, you mentioned the pandemic. I mean, think about how much was upended. Think about how many people they have these careers, they have this loyalty to some company, and then they just get. Fired for, you know, for no reason.

Just because things get restructured, things happen, and so you think that you have this stability, but you don't. And I think the real stability is putting yourself in the driver's seat if you are [00:06:00] the, the proper personality to be an entrepreneur, business owner. Uh, you know, take, take the leap, make it happen.

You can always get some other job. And that was the moment when it happened. When it was just the, the, the day job and the, and the business, they conflicted. It was good to have that overlap, but it finally got to the point where I'm like, it has to be one or the other.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. That's, that's a really great place to be, to finally get to that point because

that helps you then

be able to jump ship and be all in, in, in your, what was a side hustle.

Robert Plank: hundred

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Uh, Robert, I'm, I'm keen to know more from you about how you podcast feeds into your business

Robert Plank: So it, it feeds into my business as far as making, uh, content and making new connections and then. Those, uh, the content and connections turns into either a client or a referral source, which goes both ways. And so, you know, ideally we, and, and you know this, as far as the podcasters that you, you talk to, [00:07:00] it'd be great if you say, alright, well I'll make a podcast and I'll do a hundred interviews and I'll talk to a hundred people and like, they'll all become my podcast clients.

And it's like, well if, if only the math worked out that way. Right. And sometimes it's a, it's a very journey, right? You, you come across someone. And maybe someday they'll, they'll be someone that works with you or they might just be a good friend. And so there's, there's like two paths, right? It's like you have someone on your podcast and, and boy, when, when you're on the podcast with someone, then you're in, in a, in a much tighter, closer circle than, than you, than you po possibly could be.

Right? It's like if you're on a podcast with someone, how many podcasts? Uh, have they, or will they be on in their lifetime? Like May, maybe a hundred or 200, but for the, for the average person, like you might be like one of 10 or 20 people that they've been with on a podcast. So you're like really kind of close buddies in a way, right?

You're in this special club and, uh, so it's, it's someone that. Is, uh, becomes a friend, right? Someone you get to know as [00:08:00] opposed to just, oh, here's this person I messaged with like, like you and me, sadaf. Like we, uh, we, we were in front of each other and it says as close to in-person as it could be while still being efficient.

And so, so you might meet that person and you have them on, uh, your podcast, and they might be someone that buys me, but they're just someone that. Might then stay in your orbit, right? If, if when you make a, a social post and you're so tired of only getting one like, or one comment, you

take a reel, a clip outta your podcast, you post it, you tag them, and then why wouldn't they share it?

Because they're part of it. They're in it. And then you're also kind of reminding them that you exist in the fun times that you had. And then if. In six months. If, if someone needs Sadaf to run a podcast or they need Robert Plank to do it, then you're more top of mind. And then likewise say there's so, like I interviewed some lady who was an, an attorney, or I think she was like a, a legal mediator.

For if you need to go to court to get custody of your pet. [00:09:00] So imagine if I have some friend that says, you know, I'm, I'm going through a, a real nasty divorce. I'm trying to fight to keep custody of the dog. I'll say, Hmm, who do I know? Oh, this exact lady who I had on my podcast. And so two pets, right?

Either a client or a referral source.

Sadaf Beynon: Referral. No, that's really good. Robert, what kind of results did you first start seeing when you started your podcast and try, you know, we're trying to connect with clients' referrals.

Robert Plank: So the, I mean, I guess the, um, so it's, you, you're, you're, what's great about podcasts is like you kind of reignite old memories, right? And, and I think that. Uh, when I first took podcasting, seriously, my mentor told me to go on a podcast tour and I went on 41 podcasts and I was just amazed at how, uh. I don't know if easy is the right word, but I was amazed at how smooth it was once I got outta my own way.

And once I like just let, let myself be confident. And so many times we think about, okay, [00:10:00] podcasting, I'll, I'll get my speaker sheet in order. Right? I'll prospect to shows. And that's how we connected, right? We didn't know each other. We're just like, Hey, there's all these shows you can contact, you can get on board.

But I think when. It clicked on with me as far as the results was I went on a bunch of shows with my customers, and so I had a WordPress plugin like I created 15 years ago and still sell, it's called Paper Template. And what it is is like, you know, the, there's all these like sales letters, right? And you want it to look like a piece of paper.

And then, uh, there's, it's kind of more mainstream now, but back when WordPress was like just a blog, it was hard to. Take a WordPress site and make like a landing page. And so I made a plugin that did that. But then how do you make sales? Well, you, you look around at like content or traffic, but I had an affiliate program and I was trying to, uh, develop my affiliates.

And when you have affiliates, like it's, you get a hundred of 'em and maybe like two posts to LinkedIn and that's it. It's hard to get [00:11:00] your affiliates and your affiliate program to do much. And so I said. To my affiliate list. I said, well, if you want me to be on your podcast, then uh, send me a a schedule link or we can use mine, but let's get something on my calendar.

Let's show up. I'll talk for 20 minutes. And so I was on 41 shows, but they were 41 people that I already knew. That were already my customers, that were already my affiliates, and it was almost the same conversation every time. It was a little bit different, but I kind of was talking about the same kind of benefits and then it was really smooth because the focus was on me and on the this product paper template that we were trying to sell because they were already the affiliates for it.

Then it was a good deal for them too, because we created this unique content and then they could post it and put their affiliate link on there. And so that was, uh, just a, an interesting aha that the, the, the podcast episodes that you do, right? Being on a show or having a [00:12:00] guest, it doesn't need to be with a stranger.

It can be with some old mentors, some vendor, some customer, and it, it can be someone that. You talk to every day or every month, you, you can be your friend. And so that was kind of an interesting, uh, just realization and, and some, some great results was developing my affiliates and giving them some extra content marketing materials.

Sadaf Beynon: No, that's very good because, um, I've, I've heard, I've heard that advice before where, you know, if you wanna get known and you wanna get yourself out there, go on other podcasts and. I really like how you were really strategic about it. I know you were using people you already knew, affiliates, friends, so on and so forth, and it was about plugging your product and 'cause it was beneficial for both of you. What if there's someone who's in a position that doesn't have podcaster friends and doesn't have people and affiliates who have a platform like a podcast, what would you say to them?[00:13:00]

Robert Plank: I, well then I would, I would say start with where you're at, and I think that you still. It still is, is a good idea to start your own podcast and you still have friends. Like I had a, a podcast client a few years ago who is like a, a functional medicine doctor, but then people always go through different iterations in life.

And she had been an emergency room doctor and she'd gone to medical school and she went back and I think she interviewed like some old professors, some old doctor colleagues. So even if you say, okay, well maybe I'm starting some new business, or I'm some new space, I don't really have my, my.

Infrastructure of friends yet? Well, there's still people that you know from a previous life or you think about you, you post on LinkedIn and who's always there for you, right? You, you make that LinkedIn and we all have people like that, right? You make some posts and, oh, that same person's liking my posts again and again.

Like, why not reach out to that person that you just, every week you, you see on, on LinkedIn or you see on Facebook and you say, you know, we should catch up. But many [00:14:00] times you catch up and it's like, uh, what's really the benefit? Well, how about you catch up in terms of being on a podcast? And then that way the conversation you would've, you would've had anyway.

You have it recorded publicly and it can help people, and then it helps you and your guests because you can promote whatever they have going on. Maybe they have some, some new app or some new book or some new business, and then you're providing value to them and, and sure. Being someone's friend and talking to them is providing value, but also just that you're, you're giving them these marketing assets, right?

You, you follow up, give them the reels, give 'em the quote graphics, give 'em the swipe files. And so I think that as, as weird and silly and awkward as it might be, if there's that person that you might want to catch up with having them on your podcast, like, I have a real estate. A podcast client and he's had like his, his wife and his kids, and it's, it's just, uh, I don't know.

It it, it makes it something like kind of varied and different as far as your, your podcast format. Just have someone that you normally wouldn't think [00:15:00] that you could have on your show.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, that's good. And I guess keeping in mind that it fits into, what your podcast is about and who your audience is, it fits into their frame. Yeah. Robert, you've built a whole business on, um, removing podcast overwhelm. What are some of the biggest blockers you help your clients with?

Robert Plank: I helped them by just making it simple and giving them choices. Right? Because I think, uh, something that blew my mind was this book, think and Grow Rich. Have you heard of it?

Sadaf Beynon: I have yet,

Robert Plank: Everyone's heard of it, right? And it's, it's all this amazing stuff. And all the, the successful people like the John Rockefeller and all these presidents, it's like this, this weird, like secretive bible for business owners.

And there's all these aspects of it, but I think what's huge about it is the power of using your imagination. That you have a choice, right? You can be someone. Who is creative, imaginative, [00:16:00] visualizes things, or you can be someone that doesn't do that and just lets life and randomness and other bullies happen to you.

And so there, there's definitely power in someone saying, well, I, I, I want a podcast, but I'm not really sure what. The point is, or what it will lead to, what it will look like. And then you, you get your support system, get someone helping you out, and they can say, okay, well here's three graphics. Here's what your cover might look like.

Oh, you don't like one and two, but you like three and you want it to have different colors. Okay, here's. It iteration number four. Or you want a different font and you want this text bigger and that text smaller. Well, here we go. And then now you're more on your way to something that is real. Like I heard the advice once of like say you wanna go back to college, right?

Take the first step, right? Get a, get a brochure, see what classes there are. Well say your dream is to own a red Ferrari. You don't just think about it. Go and get the, get whatever catalog or get whatever flyer is needed and just take that first step. Towards [00:17:00] visualizing it and, and getting it as part of your imagination.

So I think that that imagination's really important. And if someone is thinking about a podcast and they're not really doing it we'll look into what's required, look at other shows and find a way. To get yourself energized and excited about the possibilities is developing any new habit is tough, right?

It's like our, our human brains are designed for just that, that momentum of that inertia. Just like, Hey, I'm on this track. I'll just, I'll keep doing it because it keeps you safe. Because if you have something that's kind of working right now, well, why would you throw that away? So, to kind of turn, turn the, the boat a tiny bit, you have to get outta your comfort zone.

And I think that it's important just to. To, to know what your podcast will look like or what it might look like or what it might evolve into. Right. Will you, will you have a black background? Will you have a plant in the background? What will the, the picture of the future be?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, so. What else do you [00:18:00] find? So there's the visualization slash imagination. What else do you find?

Robert Plank: I think, uh, just knowing about the people that you wanna help, and, and you mentioned this a few minutes ago, right? That there's, uh, there's the, that kind of self-sabotage idea of, oh, there's so many podcasts, right? There's millions of podcasts. Well. There's, there's millions of podcasts that people have given up on, right?

There's lots of shows that people started and then stopped. And why is that? Well, because.

The show wasn't making money, didn't have a point. Maybe it was three friends hanging around talking about their favorite movies. Like who does that really benefit? It benefits them and it's fun. But you think about, okay, uh, I, I'm Sadaf and there's all these, uh, people out there who they need to have their own podcast, but they're held up for all these reasons.

So why not? Bring in all these experts that have made it work, that are having fun with it, that have turned it into real business. That way you can be an encourager. So I think that it's really important to think about who are the people that you're helping. And I really hate that I, [00:19:00] the idea of like the, the ideal client avatar.

Isn't that such a weird, like, impersonal,

uh, concept, but you think about, okay, well, like who needs the encouragement? Who, who really could benefit from having a podcast? But they're just like, you know, I. I don't have the time, I don't have the money. They make all kinds of excuses. So you really think about that, those people that you wanna help.

And that's a great driver for a lot of reasons, right? You know, if your show is what it should be, if you're, uh, you got the right guests, it kind of helps you to continue forward because you're like, Hey, it's not just about me, it's about helping other people. So really think about those people that you want to help with your podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, that's very good. Robert, before we, um, before we started recording this, we were chatting, weren't we? And, um, you've done 1400 episodes

and I mean, that's just crazy. That's, that's so many episodes. It's congratulations. Um, but I'm, I'm [00:20:00] really keen to know what helps you keep going without burning out.

Robert Plank: Well, uh, knowing what the results is, uh, really helped. And, uh, just taking that calendar seriously. And, and I've definitely gone through lots of ups and downs with psyching myself out, talking myself out of maybe. Giving up the podcast, what's the point? And it's just, it's so important, right? Because you, you figure, okay, like if someone wants to work with you and they, they look on your social media or your website, or they Google you, what will they find?

And if your last LinkedIn post was eight weeks ago, that's really not good, right? But if your last post was two hours ago, like, hey, here's someone who takes their business seriously. And so, uh, the, the output. That comes from podcasting is really important, and especially the way that the, that the AI is really ramped up and, and LinkedIn and prospecting.

I'm always learning about like, like salesmanship, right? And keeping your sales pipeline full. And these people that are like really, really good [00:21:00] salespeople that they talk to hundreds of people. I'm like, okay, that's what I need to do. I need to talk to hundreds of people. And then, and what does that mean?

Well, it means you, uh, you, you figure out system networks. You figure out your step-by-step process and you block out the time to make it happen, and you get those appointments on the calendar, and then you show up to those appointments. And so any problem that you have in front of you, like the problem of like getting burned out, well, why is that something that might defeat you?

Because it's this size, it's huge, and then you're this size, you're small, right? If your problem the size of it is bigger than you are, then of course it will defeat you. Of course it will crush you. So how do you crush your problems? You break them up into smaller sizes and then, hey, I can tackle that. I can tackle that.

So you say, well, step one, am I contacting new people on a consistent, reliable basis? Okay, step two, if I am, am I getting those people on my calendar? Is it leading to something? And then step three, am I then showing up [00:22:00] to. Record and do my show and then maybe step four, am I like catching the ball, right?

Do I have something in place? Do I have a team, such a as your excellent service where after you record the show is something then being done with it and hey, instead of a a big problem, it's four little problems. And I feel like out of those four then you can say, well. Where am I struggling the most, or which is the toughest?

And I think that for me, I can't remember what the exact numbers I just said, but like the whole thing of I, if I had appointments on the calendar, then I kind of try to talk myself out, like, oh, well, do I need to get to this nine o'clock, 10 o'clock thing? And I, I had a lot of of different podcast guests where I asked that question.

I said, well, how do you take the calendar seriously? And I got different answers. And, and one person said, well, do the mental work, like look into,

uh, mindfulness meditation and, and if you find yourself with that negative self-talk, then you need to retrain, right? You need to like pull up those. As silly as it is, pull up those audios on [00:23:00] YouTube and like make it a put it in, make it a habit for 30 days to like listen to that.

And it's like. Put a, you put a appointment in calendar for that, to take the other calendar appointment seriously. So there's that, there's like retraining your brain. And one of the podcast guests said, well, if you were like a, like an attorney or a judge or a surgeon. If that surgeon had appointments on the calendar, would they say, oh, well, Saturday at 10:00 AM I'm not sure if I can go and do someone's brain surgery.

Like people are depending on you. So it's like, maybe play the mental game there and exaggerate a little bit the, the importance of you being there that way you're, you're forced to take it seriously. And so I think that, uh, a a lot of people can't crack it. Right. A lot of people don't, don't do it. They give up on their podcast, but it, it's up to people like.

You and me and my clients, and your clients to, uh, to rise above it and to, to figure it out and to build something Great. So take that calendar seriously.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. No, that's really good. I mean, I love how you're, you're just [00:24:00] given some really great practical, proactive tips to make sure, make sure you don't get to that place. And, um, I agree, like, you know, you sometimes you just don't wanna show up and you do need to retrain the way you're thinking, um, because people are depending on it and you've, and it's integrity, isn't it?

You've said you're gonna do it, so you gotta do it. Um. But I'm, I'm curious to know what you think is the mindset that you would need to carry, um, you know, throughout your podcasting journey. It's not just when you're feeling burnt out, but even maybe to avoid the burnout. It's just what, what would you say to that?

Robert Plank: I would say be an encourager and if, and like that, that term burnout. I know it's such a, it, it's so mainstream, but I'm always like, does it, do people really know what it means? Right. Or is it just something that people throw at as a cop out? And it's like, I think that you always have to be like, be an encourager, but also be curious about.

The, your surroundings and the stories [00:25:00] you're telling yourself. 'cause I mean, we all do it, right? We, we tell ourselves these stories or fixate on these phrases that they don't even make sense other than we say, Hey, I don't feel like podcasting. I'm burnt out. And it's like, yeah, but like what, what, which of the four types of burnout is it?

And. Instead of saying, I'm just burnt out. Well, maybe the, the better question to ask is like, how do I I not be burnt out or how to make the burnout work for me? And when, when someone says that they're burnt out, I'm thinking like, okay, well, to me that means that you keep performing input task a. Then output Task B is just like not changing, right?

It's not what you want. It's like they say like you're, you're spinning your wheels, right? The wheels spin in and the car's not going anywhere. So instead of just giving up like, well, how do you change that? Is the problem that you need to be talking to better people? Okay. Which people, and I think for a lot of people, the problem, the lack is follow up.

I think that there's this, well, someone told me I needed to do a podcast [00:26:00] or I went and saw someone. Doing a podcast and I thought, Ooh, that looks easy. I'll do that. Just like, you know, someone, Ooh, uh, that person's a race car driver. I'll do that. And then it's like, well, you copy, you incompletely copy the system.

Right? You, you look at that, they're Okay, well, Joe Rogan, he's going there and recording stuff. Yeah, but what are you doing afterwards? Are you actually like following up with those guests and are you getting some results of that? And I think that, uh, I, I iterate through my. 'cause I have 1400 episodes and then out of that 1200 or interviews I go on iterate through those all the time, right?

I go through and I tell my podcast guests, like even from five, 10 years ago. I'm like, Hey, here's our podcast on YouTube. Could you leave a comment? And then I run the whole transcript through chat, GB he. And they say, Hey, you know, a comment you could leave is boom, this. And they, they could paste it. I make it easy for them.

Then when I iterate through them, when I see like 132 comments that month on the different podcast episodes, some five, 10 years [00:27:00] ago, I'm like, Hey, now I'm seeing some kind of results. Or when it reactivates the relationship and then they become a client or they make a affiliate sale, or I get them on the podcast again.

So it's like, well, if, if you're, uh, burnt out or giving up. It's maybe because you're bored and because you're like getting the, the same results back out instead of bigger and bigger results. So focus on that part of it, right? Focus on the solution and the the new outputs that you want to make and not on your maybe unmet expectations.

And don't fixate on the problem 'cause you get more of what you focus on, right? You focus on the problem, you have more problems, focus on the solution, you'll change your trajectory.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. That's very good. Before we started recording, we were also talking about the importance of consistency.

Robert Plank: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: In terms of, you know, making sure that as we were talking just now about showing up for your listeners and [00:28:00] for your guests that you've got on your show, um, I'd love to hear you talk more about that for the sake of our listeners now, just the importance around that.

Robert Plank: Yeah. And, and I don't know if, if I'm just, uh, like I don't, I don't think I'm autistic. 'cause sometimes I've gone and looked on like, like autism tests. But I do enjoy like, like a little bit of structure, right? Like some, I know like when I was a kid I would. Uh, would tune into like a TV show and I'd watch like the very beginning and I'd watch the opening credits and I'd be like, cool, I've, I've seen it.

I don't need to see

character development or plot. Like, I'm enjoying the, the fonts that are flying on the screen. And I enjoy the, the theme song and the music more than the actual show. And so, uh, I, I've, I don't know if it's just like, it's just me, but it's fun to think about the structure of things, right.

And especially how you can try out different things in your podcast. Figure out a flow, a formula that really works for you.

And then, and that allows you to just relax. [00:29:00] You think about like, if there's like a, like a talk show or something, right? They have like, maybe they'll have like a opening skit and then they'll have like a monologue and then they'll have, uh, like the, like the news or something and then they'll have their guests.

That's kind of fun and interesting to think about that there is an expected format and even though like a a, a talk show or, or something, they'll. They'll kind of have the same structure, but then within that structure it's different every time. And so, uh, I think that. There's, there's like one, there's like two different extremes, right?

You have a podcast and you're unprepared. Different lengths, don't know where it goes. Then the other extreme is like, well, it's asking all the same questions of your guests, but then if you can kind of play with it and find the middle ground of like, okay, well I have these kinds of guests and I'll be looking for these sorts of answers.

But then if they think something interesting and I'll pick up the thread, then there's, I think, where you can. Maybe like work the different parts of your brain at the same time. Right? There's the, like the mild autistic part where you can kind of enjoy the, the [00:30:00] structure, the rigidity, the, the predictability.

But then there's also the fun and the unexpectedness that comes with that. And I think that, that, uh, it's a, it's a good like, form of self-expression because I, I heard that once that like, your business is a form of self-expression. Well, your podcast really can be too, right? Especially if you figure. Well, my podcast doesn't have to fully live in my niche, right?

Like you talk about, uh, podcast production and starting a podcast, but I mean, you can pull in all kinds of wacky different people, uh, in different kinds of podcasts, right? You can pull in like old, uh, like, like, you know, radio hosts. You can pull in like TV people. And so, uh, you can like, have fun with the, the playfulness of it.

And I, I think that you have to have both, right? You have to have the, uh, the, the system, the format. That way you are consistent and that way you have your templates. And that way when someone, when like when you have a guest and they say, what's your show about? [00:31:00] Or What could I do on your show? You kind of have those answers.

But then when you have someone on your show, then the magic can happen, right? You have the flexibility, adaptability, not just get stuck on the same old question. So you, you kind of have both and you play with it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think that's such an important point. You gotta have fun with it. And, um, you know, going back to what you were saying really, that if you're having fun with it, that's what's gonna help you show up consistently as well because it's bringing you joy and you're meeting people and being able to have fun conversations with them. So, yeah. No, that's good. Um, so Robert, let's talk strategy a bit, a bit more. How can a podcast actually generate leads or drive revenue?

Robert Plank: Well, first you have to record those episodes and then the, like we talked about, the, the following up with your guests. And then you have to, uh, to like look at, look at whatever marketing channel that there is, right? You look at where you're building a list. Are you [00:32:00] building an email list? You have your website, you have your social media, so you need to.

Be steady on that and figure out like, okay, what's my plan and where am I posting and how often, and that's kind of like the foundation, right? You, like, a lot of people want to jump to getting a sponsor and getting ads, but you have to do things in the order of importance, right? If you wanna get a sponsor, well, you have to have some solid download numbers and you look up like your, your industry rates and like the, the expected amount that advertisers pay.

And you say, well, I've got this number of downloads, I can get this amount of money. And in order to get those number of downloads, you have to have some traffic, right? And you have to, uh, be established and be posting regularly, consistently. And then from there, then you say, well, maybe I'll run some little ads or do my, my mid-rolls, or things like that.

And I think that, um. That, that, yeah. In order to, to grow the show, you have to, uh, put out episodes consistently. And I'm really a big fan of [00:33:00] not doing too many solo episodes. Have your guests that way you can use their network. You can figure out where they're established, tag them on, on, uh, LinkedIn, have them share it on TikTok and just build in all the places and then.

Uh, it's kind of like a choose your own or venture at that point as far as which traffic method works, which platforms to focus on, which ads to run. But the foundation is like putting out enough content consistently and following up with your guests and using their influence, their network.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So you're talking about repurposing content, you know, to keep that momentum going across the different platforms. What are, um, what are some of the most effective platforms, would you say, or does that depend on, on the business?

Robert Plank: I.

think it depends, but, uh, I, I'm a big fan of YouTube shorts and of LinkedIn. I've always been a like a email marketing person and [00:34:00] I always will be. Even though like email's taken such a beating the last 10 or 20 years, it used to be say, well, if I wanna sell something, like people only buy from me if they open up an email and like that's kind of.

Facebook and LinkedIn especially have kind of edged them out a little bit and there's always like the deliverability. So I think that, uh, kind of a, an untapped, uh, thing that should be done is build your email list and you put out a, uh, a podcast episode, mail that list, even if it's only got five subscribers or 500 subscribers, mail that list.

But, uh, as far as the, the numbers, you post something to, to YouTube, sometimes you only get like 10 or 20. Views, even if you have a decent sized channel, it's like what gives, but you put out these YouTube shorts and sometimes you'll get thousands of views just because I think they're, they're trying to compete with TikTok, right?

They're trying to show like the, the shorter clips to people. And so that's something that not every podcaster does, right? Because your cordless like. 20, 30, 40 minute long episode and you [00:35:00] post it all on YouTube. And if someone's already interested in your show, if they're a fan, they might listen. But if they've never heard of you or your show before, they might not.

But you pull out the quick little clips, you put 'em on YouTube shorts, and when they're going flick, flick, flick and they're training the algorithm, then they end up on your show. And then you use those same reels on. LinkedIn and I mean, we open up LinkedIn and, and that's like half of what we see, right?

Half is like the, the AI generated texts and graphics and then the other half it are the quick reels. And I've gotten so many little, little ahas. I've gotten little like Gary v clips and Alex Hormo and just been like, oh man, they, they packed so much into that little 59 seconds. And so those are my favorites.

These days is, is YouTube shorts and LinkedIn. Uh, and I'm, I'm sure it does depend on, uh, on what your podcast is about and your own numbers. And if you have, if you have like, you know, a huge Instagram account, then pull up the [00:36:00] best. Quotes outta your show and have your team, uh, bring up Canva and put a picture of your guest and put their quote in front.

And then you have a graphic, and that's something for Instagram. And so if you have like 30,000 Instagram followers, then post where you're at. But yeah, just YouTube and LinkedIn or where it's at for me and, and not everyone uses it and they should.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Do you use, um, do you use newsletters, blogs? Is there anything else, or is it, do you just stick to those, those two platforms primarily?

Robert Plank: So I, I do have fun with the LinkedIn newsletters because like, and like it's like. And yeah, all these, there's all these platforms that we always forget are there, like they're, they're substack and that's great because people can subscribe and get a notification. And then I have been having fun with the, the LinkedIn newsletters and like, it's just all these

platforms have all these nooks and crannies that we don't always realize, right?

So on LinkedIn you can make a post, but it's like limited in link. It's like a Facebook post. You can only go like, you know, half [00:37:00] a page. But then in, in LinkedIn you can do. A LinkedIn article, which is more like a blog post. And these days with, with chat GPT, what you do is you take your big old long podcast transcript and you say, okay, well, uh, what could be an outline?

Like if this was a long form blog post, what would be the introduction? Point one, 0.2, 0.3, conclusion. And it like develops all that. And then you say, well, what would be the, the introduction that gives you half a page, right? What would be 0.1? Half a page. Half a page? What would be the conclusion? Half a page and you end up with like.

This like four page long blog post that gets into all the nooks and crannies of your podcast, but then it won't fit into a LinkedIn post, but it will fit into a LinkedIn article, which is like a, a blog post. And then not a lot of people use that because they say, Hey, you need to make a graphic. Well, you, you tell chat, GPTI need a graphic.

Or you use Canva, you make a few clicks, you whip it up. And then so that's the LinkedIn article. And then you can make what's called a LinkedIn. Newsletter, which is like [00:38:00] an article, but it's like comes out regularly. And what's really great about the news LinkedIn newsletter is I find myself subscribing to a lot of people's LinkedIn newsletters, right?

You go on someone's LinkedIn profile, you kind of size them up, like, oh, who's this Sada is, is she, what's she all about? And then if she has a. A button there that says, newsletter you one, click subscribe to it. And then when she comes out with a new newsletter post, then then hey, I get a popup. And with the magic of podcasting, you don't have to waste two days outta the week writing that newsletter.

You do a podcast interview with say, Robert Plank. You feed it all through chat, GBT, you kind of get all, all that stuff generated. You refine it and it becomes like. The blog post that you would've written, but it came about from a, a podcast interview and so, so yeah. It's just amazing how there's all this short form and long form stuff out there, right?

There's the, the Substack and the LinkedIn for the long form. There's the X and the TikTok and the [00:39:00] threads for the short form. It's so scattered and different people have different personality types, way of learning, and you take that podcast and make the short stuff, make the long stuff, and reach all sorts of people.

Sadaf Beynon: hmm. No, you're right. It, it really is. It's really great and AI has made life so much easier. For those who need to create the content, would you say that that is your, that would be a growth

strategy you know, repurposing content, creating content, and repurposing content.

Robert Plank: I think so, I think that, that even if you, uh, have, like, say, say you're in a position where you have an established podcast, right? You have 50, a hundred episodes. Maybe you're, you're slowing down, right? Maybe you're getting burnt out the way that we're talking. You've taken a break and you say, well, you know, I'm sitting on all this old content.

And the way that the, there's all these AI tools, like you can go back and just improve and beef up what you already have and, and even like, I'm sure your team will do this even, right? Just go back and, and fix up someone's [00:40:00] show notes, someone's SEO someone's thumbnails and say, because I know like, um, there were a bunch of, so many years passed when my podcast wasn't video.

I just had audio only, and then I switched to video and I was like, you know, now that I'm video. I need to put these shows on my YouTube channel. And even though some of the old episodes were audio, I can go in and make them like audiograms, like have the still image, and then there's like the waveform that's moving as people talk and it's like, Hey, there's all these videos I could put out.

And so I think that with all these. Like AI tools out there, it's so overwhelming, but it, you, you need to use it in a proper way. So don't just like run a bunch of stuff through. But like, there's definitely, uh, some growth to be had of saying like, okay, well I, I've heard Substack is, is good. Well go back to your old episodes and start cranking out the, the blog posts and 'em up a little bit.

The blog posts on your website, if your Buzz Sprout or your Podbean, or your lipsy, [00:41:00] or wherever you post your podcast, if you just post the, uh, the, the audio and then the same old blurb, we'll develop that out. Right? Figure out what are the important timestamps, talking points, links important, uh, discussions that were had, like build some of that stuff out because Google's always hungry for that.

And chat. GPT, like there's all this. This, uh, talk about like zero click searches. So if someone's like looking for a solution and they put it in chat, GBT or they put it in Google and they don't click on a link, and the AI kind of does its thing and says, Hey, you're not even clicking on a link yet, but here's the solution.

It's, it's up to you to put out a lot of. Helpful information and to put it in a way that the bots can easily digest. So that way when someone's looking for, uh, like, you know, how, how do I run a podcast? And, and, and Sadaf wants to be right there in front of all that, then you, you create the content, make it accessible, and that's a, a great.

Way of, of getting growth. So, so yeah, use those [00:42:00] AI tools, especially on your older shows that maybe you haven't looked in at a while and create some new stuff, right? Create new reels, graphics posts. That way, uh, it can get to the right people because you're, you're, you're never doing enough, right? There's never enough repurposing.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, no, you're right. And that's really good advice because when you're podcasting, you've got a wealth of, of, knowledge and information in, in the back, you know, with all your old episodes. And you're right. You can't ever do enough repurposing. That's good.

Robert Plank: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Robert, what would you say to a founder who's on the fence and has been for a while, and maybe you know about wanting to start a podcast and taking that leap but hasn't done it yet?

Robert Plank: I think that they should talk to you, but I think that that also, I, I, I mean, what do you have to lose, right? And, and give yourself a trial period because it's, I think that so much of what we do or don't do comes down to our mindset. And there's been moments when we finally took some action, finally took the leap, and [00:43:00] it's definitely valuable to go back and think about like what finally tipped the scale.

Was it that you, you logically decided and you looked at the pros and the cons, and then there was one little event that finally, uh, ti it in for you? Or did you say, you know. I'm gonna try this podcasting thing for 60 days, and at the end of 60 days, I'll, I'll like, or at the beginning, I'll decide what success looks like, right?

What's my goal? Do I wanna have 10 podcasts? Do I wanna have a new sale, a new client, a hundred opt-ins? Like what's my goal? And then give yourself 60 days and take it seriously. And if you didn't hit your goal. Was it because you didn't perform the actions right? Or was it because you did perform the actions?

Right. And like the output wasn't what you wanted, but like you don't know until you have the data. And then sometimes you do have to psych yourself out. Like I had a friend once who, uh, I think. For some reason he had to climb up on, on a roof. I don't know if he was like painting or, or tarring the roof or something, but he was like [00:44:00] too afraid to climb the ladder, and the friend said, well, let's say that there was a a hundred thousand dollars cash up there on that roof.

Would you climb the ladder? Well, yeah, so it's possible. To climb the ladder. It's just for how much reward is it, is it worth it for you? And so there's these things that we all tell ourselves, oh, I, I can't do that. I, I couldn't run a mile in, in eight minutes. Well, if there was a hundred thousand dollars cash at the end of the eight miles, would you at least try your best?

And if you ran a, a nine and a half minute mile instead of eight miles, wouldn't that be like, it wouldn't be a hundred percent a success rate, but wouldn't it be kind of closer than you were when you started and that, and that you thought, and so yeah, it's, it's like you gotta give podcasting a try. But you need to have some, some real clear goals.

Like Brian Tracy says that only 3% of the population has actual concrete goals that they've written down and act on every day, only 3%. So if you wanna stand out, then be, perform those habits, [00:45:00] right? Figure out what you want, write it down,

and if podcasting fits into that, and it can, if you're all about networking and traffic.

The social content and the SE and relevance, then figure out a way to fit the end of that plan. Write it down, take it seriously. Have your mentor support system execute the dang plan.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. That's very good. Thank you, Robert. Robert, this has been such fun. Thank you for all your insight.

Robert Plank: Happy to be here. Had a fun conversation.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. But before we wrap up, if listeners wanna learn more about you and your work, where should they go to do that?

Robert Plank: They should go to marketeroftheday.com. That's my podcast. And that's where we talked about how there's that, the fun formula to be had of, uh, you listen to one or two episodes and you kind of hear my structure about how. I, I like, I'm curious about all different types of people, all different types of business owners, entrepreneurs, and it's just a, a good place to kind of get tapped into that entrepreneurial mindset and listen [00:46:00] to people you normally wouldn't come across.

And then the, uh, website for my service is dfypodcast.com. We like to make it simple. If you're the kind of person that says, well, I want a podcast, but I'm so overwhelmed with all the possibilities. We just have a team that goes to work and makes it happen for you. You give us your recordings and we do the distribution and show notes and put it on all your social platforms.

So those are the two resources marketeroftheday.Com is the podcast and dfypodcast.com is the service.

Sadaf Beynon: Perfect. Thank you so much to those listening in. All the links that Robert has just mentioned can be found in the show description, and if you've been wondering how to make podcasting actually work for your business, not just as content, but as a relationship and growth engine, I hope that Robert's story and strategies have helped create a clearer path forward for you. And that's it for today. Thank you for listening. Please do reach out if you have any feedback about the show [00:47:00] or would like to be a guest. I would love to hear from you and I'll see you next time.

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