How Your Podcast can Become an Unbeatable Marketing Strategy | John Roman

John Roman | How Your Podcast can Become an Unbeatable Marketing Strategy

[00:00:00]

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome to Podjunction Podcast, a show for podcasters using their podcast to grow their business. I'm Sadaf Beynon and beside me is the Matt Edmundson.

Matt Edmundson: The Matt Edmundson. Wow. It's, it's, it's, it's really fascinating actually, because we live in Liverpool.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, we do. We do, we do, we

Matt Edmundson: do live in Liverpool.

And in Liverpool, uh, we like to, I say we.

Sadaf Beynon: No, we. It's not, no. Matt likes to.

Matt Edmundson: I say we. Um, uh, people of Liverpool like to put the word the before pretty much everything. So there's a supermarket in the UK called Asda, in Liverpool it's called The Asda, um, And it's just, it's just one of the things that we like to do.

So when you say the Matt Edmundson, it's like, that's how I'll probably be introduced. Hey, that's the Matt Edmundson there, lad. And so it's um, do you remember when the [00:01:00] movie Batman came out? Which one? The one that was filmed in Liverpool. The one that, the recent one.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But it wasn't called Batman. It was called The Batman, which

just

Matt Edmundson: pleased everybody in Liverpool.

That was good. And then because they filmed in a lot of it in Liverpool as well. I think it was all wonderfully. Anyway, I digress. Yes. So anyway, Edmundson is sat next.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: All right, come on, let's do it. All right. What we're doing today.

Sadaf Beynon: Not the Scouse accent.

All right. So today we've got the fourth and final segment with John Roman. And, um, if you've listened to any of the full length episodes, you'll know that I like to ask our guests. To let us know within 60 seconds why they think podcasting is a great tool for business growth. So I asked John the same question and he took a bit longer than 60 seconds, but it was all really good, valuable.

I'm not [00:02:00] surprised at all in any way. Yeah. Um, so I thought we would make a segment out of it and for you guys to hear his, uh, Um, his thoughts on it as well.

Matt Edmundson: So that's what we've got coming up. That's what we've got. Can I ask a question? Sure. Has anyone ever answered that question in 60 seconds or less?

Really?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Are they new podcasters if they answer it in 60 seconds or less? No. I kind of feel like if you ask a seasoned podcaster, you know, for an answer to that question, they're just going to Go off on one because they're going to say something which will spark an idea which will spark another idea and before you know it, four hours have passed.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, you know Jared Kraus?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: He's coming up and he did it in a couple of words actually.

Matt Edmundson: Jared, what a legend.

Sadaf Beynon: And then he went on to say more, but yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, okay, well fair play, fair play. Well done for doing it in under 60 seconds, but John, I'm not surprised it took over 60 seconds. That's all. There's no hint of surprise on my face.

I don't know if I'd be able to answer it in 60 seconds. No, you can't. [00:03:00]

That's why I wouldn't ask you. Be like Matt, in 10 words or less. Tell me.

Matt Edmundson: Well, well, it's unknown I suppose. I don't know, I don't know. Just kidding?

Just kidding.

Matt Edmundson: Just kidding. This is Sadaf's catchphrase, isn't it? You mention, you say something, and then just follow up with just kidding, like Matt, you were really rubbish.

Sadaf Beynon: Just kidding.

Oh dear.

Matt Edmundson: Brilliant. So, we've got John Roman. All right, well, let's play the clip, then Sadaf and I will be back after this to chat about John's more than 60 second conversation. So here we go. Let's do it.

Sadaf Beynon: Can you tell us why you think podcasting is a great marketing tool to grow one's business?

John Roman: Sure, so, so I think it's, it's an absolute, um, For B2B, I think you could, you could argue whether it, whether it is, [00:04:00] you have to look at it in a completely different lens when you're talking about a direct to consumer brand.

There's benefit, but I think you have to, the business has to have some maturity to it, um, and you have to be very strategic. You know, as I said earlier, there's, there's multiple ships in, in, in that, in that port. On the B2B side, it's It's, it's really, it's a no brainer, right? You're, you're going to have, I'm going to struggle to keep this in 60 seconds, but the reality is the, just like consumer behavior has, has, has buying behavior has changed over time.

So has, you know, B2B. Purchase Behavior, right? Um, you know, before you used to take a phone call, have the demo, try to make a decision. Um, now it's, uh, it's, it's almost a research piece, right? Like you're going to your community, whether it's LinkedIn or you're in a Slack group, um, or Reddit, like you, or a Facebook group, there's hundreds of, [00:05:00] and you're, you're asking the community and you're listening to the community on, on, on the right.

The right solution, whether it's an email provider or an agency like Mm-Hmm. , you're, you're really look listening, um, for, for the right answer. And that's changed so much. Right? Before it was very, you got the email and that's how you decided to meet with someone. So because of that. Um, you, there's an opportunity where, where B2B leaders can, can be in the space as thought leaders, providing value, talking about the topics that everyone wants to talk about and, and know about anyway.

And that way, when, okay, Jimmy is the example. Jimmy does this great job providing free value and best practices when it comes to email and. All of a sudden, you know, you're mad at Klavia, or you're looking for a new email provider, and Jimmy comes to mind. [00:06:00] Well, what, maybe Sendlane is an option. I always see Jimmy's posts.

Jimmy's interacting with my posts. So, you know, that is, that's the new way of selling, right? It's all about, um, the non overly aggressive traditional sales process and more just relationship building. And that's done through content, whether it's traditional posting or it's, or it's video and podcast. And I think, um, you know, the, the, the traditional model.

That a lot of B2B companies do where it's, it's host and guest. It's great for networking, right there. You're, you're, you're going to build your network. Um, And eventually, just, you know, organically, people you talk to and guests and then friends of guests are going to have a need and you're the first person they think to, they think to go to, right?

And I think that's, that's where it's of value. Content is key. Content is [00:07:00] king. And podcast piece checks that content box, but it also checks the building your network box.

Sadaf Beynon: Absolutely. That was way

John Roman: longer than a minute. I apologize.

Sadaf Beynon: That's totally okay. That was a lot of good stuff that you said there. So it really doesn't matter at all, but you're right.

It is, it is very much, um, a softer sell and, um, you're warming up leads. without even realizing it. And the leads are getting warmed up without even realizing it. Right. In a sense, isn't it?

John Roman: Yeah, it's, uh, it's just a, but it's, it's people want community, right? And that, that checks the community box.

Sadaf Beynon: If that got you curious and you want to catch the full episode, be sure to subscribe to the show. We've got plenty more great conversations coming up.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Let me get my microphone in the right place though, putting [00:08:00] my notes on the table. Uh, love that. Uh, but definitely more than 60 seconds, but I, you're right. I think. He needed more than 60 seconds to explain his thinking and um, the thing I liked about what John said was actually stuff that's not really been said too much before, this new way of selling, um, that is sort of becoming more and more prevalent in the market place.

It's much more of a medium to long term approach, um, and so some of the other stuff you may have to do short term, but medium to long term podcasting seems to be. A great tool for this new way of selling, uh, more so than any other tool I've come across, I

think. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so I like that phrase, podcasting, the new way of selling.

I steal that. Thanks John . Uh, but because I think it is, I think it is, it is all integrated and this new, this new part. Mm-Hmm. and I, I, I. I [00:09:00] think that works and I think that makes sense. You know, the ability to put content out there, which we talked about last week, um, being thought leadership again, John Roman, part three, check it out.

If you haven't done so already. Um, and we talked about that last week, but the ability to put content out there so that when people are searching and looking, they come across that content. Yeah. What do HubSpot call this? They call it, um, inbound marketing, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is inbound marketing whereby, um, you understand that there are, there are different, people are at different phases of the buyer's cycle from problem aware to solution aware to non problem aware to not solution.

I mean, there's this sort of matrix, isn't there? Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, traditionally we did. And we still do, we still do cold outreach, which is a bit like, you know, standing on the street with a megaphone, yeah, just like, this is who I am, this is where I am, hoping that something makes sense for somebody, but inbound is capturing that traffic who [00:10:00] are on that buyer's journey somewhere, giving them some kind of content to connect with you so that they begin to know, like, and trust you, and then at some point when they are ready to buy, You're the person that's sort of top of mind and he's obviously the example of Jim with

Sadaf Beynon: his email.

Yeah, he said that, um, in the context of thought leadership, didn't he? Like, so they're providing value and talking about the stuff that people are already wanting to know about.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, which makes a lot of sense. Right. So, um, we need to, like in podcasting, we talk about how do you, I mean, we're so niche.

If you think about podjunction, this is not a podcast about how to do a podcast, because there's plenty of podcasts about podcasting, about which microphone you should use, about which cameras and all the tech gear and stuff that, well, actually I care about, but I don't care about doing a podcast about, if that makes sense.

Yeah. There's plenty of people doing that. So we focused in on a niche. It's like, well, no, let's [00:11:00] look at this. How do we create content for people who are podcasting that to build their business? That's the reason that they're doing it. They want to build a business. So how do we create content around that?

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Well, that's a bit more interesting, isn't it? And it's, it's a bit more niche. It's a bit more, um, around an actual need. So yes, if you want to know how to, you know, which camera to use, just, you know. There'll be podcasts out there, I'll go look at Think Media, you know, yeah YouTube is great, um, but it was much less competitive in this space, and actually this is much more what I want to talk about, the cameras and stuff is nice, I've got a nice camera, but once I've got the camera I don't need to go think about it again for another two years, right, um, but the techniques and strategies about this new way of selling I think are a constant evolution, and that's why it's nice sort of focusing on that content.

Yeah, great. Why did we start talking about that? I can't remember. I don't know. No, I have no idea. I've lost my train of thought. [00:12:00] Anyway, what did you think to what John was saying?

Sadaf Beynon: I thought it was great. Yeah. Just cleared the throat. Yeah, sorry. Um, yeah. So he said, uh, for, uh, using podcasts for B2B, no brainer, direct business growth.

Yeah. Um, B2C though, more strategic. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, the approach needs to be far more strategic, which is interesting. I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense, doesn't it? Um, yeah, I like that.

Matt Edmundson: Why?

Sadaf Beynon: Why? To which one?

Matt Edmundson: Why do you like, you say you like that? Why? Expand a little bit more.

Sadaf Beynon: Well, I like it because it makes sense.

Like he's, you know, he's hit the nail on the head with that. You don't really, there's no, there's not a lot of guesswork. You don't have to think too hard about it. If you're in B2B. Use the podcast, um, what did he say? Content is, is King. And, um, [00:13:00] last in the last one, he said, building an audience is key. So, you know,

Matt Edmundson: he used the word community a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I use community in this one, didn't he? Yeah. So again, um, using your podcast to create content, create a community and

Matt Edmundson: I love that, whenever you can use the word bish, bash, bosh, you do it, right, um, or not the word, the phrase, uh, the three words. So this new way of selling, uh, John talks about is based on relationship, based on community, um, based on the idea that, um, a lot of people are in the research phase, thinking again about the buyer's journey, where people are at.

I think it's like. Out of a hundred people, 3 percent might be ready to buy. Yeah. And that's where we direct all our marketing, all our attention. It's like, let's go find those three people that are ready to buy. That's the most competitive space. 97 percent of the people aren't ready to buy, but they're going to be ready to buy at some point.

That's where the education comes in and understanding the buyer's journey. [00:14:00] Yeah. That's where a relationship is built. That's where a community is made. And I, I liked how John talked about people are researching. And if you understand that. You can connect with people in that research space. Um, and so when they are ready to buy, you've got them.

And I think where podcasting works and as John was talking, I kind of clicked in my head where podcasting works is it helps people in that phase and in that sort of phase of the buyer's journey where they're researching, they're wanting to know more. But the reason podcasting works is because it mixes that research with entertainment.

Yeah. Right. So you, you have. a blog post. So, you know, let's go back to my example of which camera should I use for my video podcast. You go, there's a million blog posts right out there telling you to go get whatever camera, the Sony ZV10 or the Canon, you know, whatever camera. And so you can read that and it's facts and it's [00:15:00] information.

But actually, when you watch something on YouTube, or when you That facts and information is then merged with entertainment. Yeah. Right? So I prefer to watch a video than read a blog post. Yeah. So if I was going to look for a new camera, I'd go on to YouTube because I would want to see the video rather than read a blog post.

It's quicker to read the blog post, but I, I prefer the video. I can, there's a lot more information it gives me as they're holding it in their hands and all that sort of subconscious information. But if I'm honest with you, it's an entertainment thing. And it keeps me entertained much more. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. And I think podcasting is a great way to bring an entertainment around that thought leadership that hopefully keeps people coming back.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: I

Sadaf Beynon: am. I was actually thinking when you were talking about blogs, blogs that we used to do that before podcasting, try and use, um, the blog [00:16:00] posts to kind of give as much information to people on their buying journey as possible so that they would eventually go to buy now button.

Um, yeah. But now, as you say, the, the podcast is, uses a lot more of your senses, doesn't it? And so you're able to engage with it more than you would with a, with a blog post. Maybe people do prefer to read, uh, there's always that, but I don't know, are blog posts as effective as they were?

Matt Edmundson: I think, I think, yes, I just think there's a lot of them and it's fiercely competitive for others.

The podcasting in YouTube space is maybe not as competitive. Yeah. A lot more involved. Yeah. But I think here's the other thing you can, you need to think about. It's like if we produce this as a video, podcast, that's how we do Podjunction. how we do all our podcasts. Um, we don't have one audio only podcast, although I'm thinking of starting an audio only podcast.

That's another story for another day. September. But [00:17:00] yeah, if you don't know August. It's my sabbatical month, so nothing happens in August, so I'm out, but September, I come back with so many good ideas, everything's ideas,

just kidding, some good ideas,

Matt Edmundson: well, I feel there's some issues there we might need to resolve, I think we might need to have a conversation about a few things, so yeah, just shout the word ideas.

Awesome. So what were we talking about before?

Sadaf Beynon: In September, you come back with great ideas.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I can't remember what my ideas were. Audio. Oh, I see. Yeah. So here's the thing, right? Here's the process. I can take an audio podcast and I can separate out, sorry, I can take a video podcast. Yeah. So the way it works with Podjunction, we record this as a video.

We extract the audio, which is an absolute piece of cake. Yeah. That audio becomes the audio [00:18:00] podcast. That's what you see on Apple, Spotify, and all the places you can get your podcast from, right? So I've got the video podcast, but from that same asset, I've also got the audio podcast. From that audio, I can take the transcript.

From the transcript, I can then create a blog post around that content, right? So now I've got the video, I've got the podcast, and I've got the blog post. Yeah. From that transcript and from the video, I can take clips, to, for, you know, short form video content or quotes or whatever for social media. So from my one piece of media, from this one single video recording, we output everything else.

Yeah, that's right. Whereas if I just focus purely on the blog post, I've missed the video and the audio. I can still output everything else beyond that. But I've missed it. And so for me, I like to write, I do like to sit down and write, but I look for this form of content, this type [00:19:00] of content, where it's educational, we're trying to share knowledge.

I much prefer just sitting down and chatting in front of a video with people and recalling it. It's rather than just sitting down and going, right, here's five steps to do your podcast. Well, um, step number one, I quickly run out of ideas, whereas With this conversation, what episode are we on now? Episode what, 34?

We're on 34. And we're just still scratching the surface. Yeah. And we're still going strong and so, um, but then again we, we've mixed the entertainment aspect into it, which is probably why I find it a bit more fun. Ideas! Because you never, that would have never happened in a blog post.

Sadaf Beynon: Sadaf

Matt Edmundson: types in big caps letters.

Ideas, brackets, some are good, not all of them. Close brackets.

In other words, don't get ahead of yourself, Edmo. [00:20:00] Don't think of yourself more highly than you ought to. Let's bring you back down to earth. But that never would have happened with a blog post. No. At least I find it hard to see how that would have happened.

So I

Matt Edmundson: guess, I'm hoping that the content is entertaining for people that consume it.

Yeah. But it's entertaining for me to create it.

Mm hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Does that make sense? Yep. Sure does. Especially when you're off on one. But you're always off on one, to be fair. So it's always going to be entertaining.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh dear. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, that's my, my two pennies. Um, anything else you want to throw in on this?

Sadaf Beynon: See my notes a bit closer.

Matt Edmundson: the smallest handr in the world. I know. Um, can you actually read that? Yeah. Or is it getting more and more of a struggle? Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: getting old, . Um, no, I think we've covered it. Building relationships through content, that was the community side of things, wasn't it? Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And again, that can't be underestimated, the community [00:21:00] aspect of it.

So I mentioned, I think in the last episode about Shaper, the Good Working Tool. And actually one of the things that they've done really well is built community through their content. Um, so when they do a live stream, they'll do giveaways. They get people commenting and asking questions. They answer those questions.

Um, that ability to create that engagement with the community through live streams or, and I've seen people like, um, Amy Porterfield and people like that do this quite well, where you can send in your questions or, who's the other guy, um, John Lee Dumas, and you can, you can, you know, do like a call, like, I don't know how they do it, maybe with a Google number, you know, and you, you call and you leave a voicemail and they'll bring that into the, and so you're building community and you're bringing community content in there, which I think is super, super helpful.

And I think those kind of things work really well. One of the things that we're starting to try, and I have no feedback because I've only done one. I just want to point that out is when we have a guest on the show, [00:22:00] um, that I'm hosting, I say to the guest normally towards the end, um, something along the lines of, listen, we have this thing called question for Matt, which I think, you know, will need to be named at some point properly.

Um, but we have this thing called question for Matt. You're going to give me a question. Uh, I say this to the guest, the guest is going to give me a question, but I don't answer on the podcast. I then take that snippet of that question and I record a video in vertical format answering that. Mm-Hmm. , right?

Yeah. So, um, Joe Davis, the first, the only one that we've done, Joe Davis a few weeks ago, asked me who was gonna win the Euros Mm-Hmm. right now. This was at the start of the Euros. I had no idea, but I needed to record the answer before the start of the Euros. Yeah. And so, um, we just took that snippet, who's going to win the Euros, and then I gave my answer.

So that's building community into my, into my content, into the social media aspect. So people are starting to get [00:23:00] used to the idea that they can submit their questions. And so the next evolution of this is I'm asking guests for questions is to say to the community, if you've got a question, just send me a video.

With your question, obviously, your question's got to be quick because short form video. We've only got a few minutes and I like to talk, as you know, so keep your question. So that'll be the next evolution of that and it's engaging community and building that community with content. Yes. Went off on one there.

Sorry, I'll do it again. Another good idea.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, so we actually did that one on for Joe because it was a bit time critical.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. So the others are coming if you're looking out for them.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, the others are coming. Yeah. Yeah. The question is interesting when you say to the guests, ask me a question. And then it's like a cold sweat comes onto their face.

I do pre warn them, right? I do say to them before we hit the record button, I want you to know this is a new slot in the show. This is what I'm asking. This is why I'm asking this. Yeah. So have a quick think now about the question. You might want to start doing this in the [00:24:00] prequel because they just, it's like they're a rabbit caught in a headlight, they go, I don't know, what should my question be?

And so maybe get them to write it down so they, you know, write down your question now so when it comes to it, you know what's going on. Um, but everyone loves it and everyone's, some people, you know, they've asked really interesting questions, normally around eCommerce because we've only done this on the eCommerce Podcast.

So. Although it'd be interesting to see what people come up with on push actually, uh, just thinking that through. Um, but yes, that's a top tip.

Sadaf Beynon: So about community, I, I actually think it's really hard to build one. I think it, I think it takes a lot of, um, effort and, um, you have to be really, what's the word I'm looking for?

You need to really think it through and be determined to. See it through as well, and I think that's, yeah, and I don't think it comes easily, you have to be quite strategic about it, and what [00:25:00] works, like one of the things, um, John pointed out now about, you know, where, like, what channel, what platform you plan to do that on, is it Slack, is it Reddit, is it LinkedIn, whatever, um, and then sticking to it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, being consistent in that arena. Yeah. Because you're right. I mean, we've tried to build communities of Facebook groups, Instagram, we've tried all kinds of things, tried and failed in many ways. Um, and it's not actually that straightforward. And people that come onto YouTube and say, Oh, just do these three things and you have 10, 000 followers.

You just want to punch them in the face because I've been, you know, in a good Christian way, obviously. Um, because it's just, you're like, I don't know. You know, for the out, like for some people, it is just really easy. They just put it on and all of a sudden they've got 10, 000 downloads and it just happens to have worked for them.

Yeah, but I think for the majority of us, we've got to graft at it and we've got to build that community and we have to be intentional. I'm speaking to Nick Ratcliffe yesterday, uh, we're recording for the eCommerce podcast. So Nick is an eCommerce [00:26:00] entrepreneur. He's, he was a doctor, quit medical practice to, to do an online business where he, He sort of does poster design.

He does graphic design, doesn't he? And people buy his posters. Um, so very much a passion project. But he's, one of the things that's worked well for him is he's figured out how to build the community on Instagram. He was talking a lot about that actually and how Instagram drives more traffic to his website and sales than his email marketing does.

Which leads me to think his email marketing's broken, which I did speak to him. But, I think that He was super intentional about that and it's taken him two, three, four years to build, to build that audience and that community up and just having something interesting and just posting something, understanding who you need, all those things are super important but you're right, find where they are and just keep hitting that, that place where they're at to build that community and just be active in it.

Sadaf Beynon: Just something you [00:27:00] said, I don't know if we've got a time for this. So you might need to keep it to like 10 words when you respond. Just kidding. Just kidding. Um, I forgot. Um, what was I going to say?

Matt Edmundson: I have no idea.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes. I know what I was going to say. So for something like B2B, actually, no, no, scrap that. But like for what, let's just go with what you were saying about Nick using Instagram to drive traffic.

To his website. And it's obviously worked. What about something like podcasting? So if you've got a podcast and you're, you're posting on Instagram, is that really effective as effective as, um, or would something like email marketing be better?

Matt Edmundson: Well, that's a really deep question. Cause it's

Sadaf Beynon: more of a service or, well, it depends what it is, what you do, I suppose, but.

Yeah, [00:28:00] I

Matt Edmundson: think it does. And I think if you're hosting a podcast and you're wanting to use Instagram, for example, to grow your podcast, I think that makes sense. And I think you can find, especially if you're in a niche market, you'll find eventually keep posting stuff out there and, and, and you'll do okay, you might have to put some money behind it to get the initial traction.

So I think, I think that can work. I think if you've already got an Instagram following, does it make sense to do a podcast? So would it make sense for Nick to do a podcast? I think that's a slightly different question. I think it, I think he and I actually had a conversation about what might make a bit more sense for him.

Um, so he's in the creative space. He does these posters, his niche is the Christian market. Um, so there's many ways he could approach this. He could do like a video YouTube channel quite easily, I think, um, like come draw with me like a live [00:29:00] stream type thing, you know, come design with me and build a community around that.

Um, he could definitely do a podcast around the creative process, um, about, you know, Being a medical doctor and following your dreams. I mean he's got a really interesting story and he could, he could do, he could do something around that which would build that community. I think it would be very hard to do a audio podcast around something that's visual.

Yeah. Um, and his stuff is very visual so I think he'd have to do the video podcast side of things. Hmm. Unless he did an audio podcast around something that was connected with it. So he could do something like, Uh, like a daily devotional podcast, um, to appeal to the Christian listener, um, growing that audience who will ultimately, you know, the, out of that audience comes his customers.

If that makes sense. Yeah, no, that's good. He could do something like that. Um, I think given that he is just, just him and his [00:30:00] wife and teenagers doing this thing at the moment, I think it's very much a case of, um, Focus on the one channel. For him, I think that's Instagram and doing short form video, I think would be really good.

Yeah,

Sadaf Beynon: and I guess that what you just said that it is very visual, Instagram would work well for that. That makes sense too.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it would. Uh, and you know, that kind of Etsy market, I think makes a lot of sense for him. So, yeah, it's not to say he shouldn't do a podcast, but I think at the moment with the resources the way they are, and given that he's already doing okay on Instagram, I'd probably put more.

More of my eggs in that basket. To come back to your question, though, should he grow his email list? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and this is true for podcast or podcasting. Fundamentally, we're putting content out there. We own the content, but if Apple decides for whatever reason to kick us off their platform, We've got a bit of a problem, right?

And the same with Nick, you know, he's grown his Instagram following, he's doing well on Instagram, but as soon as Instagram goes, [00:31:00] yeah, we're just not showing content anymore.

For

Matt Edmundson: whatever reason, then he's kind of, he's just out of the game in so many ways. And so the best, highest value thing you can build, you know, for your business is your email list.

And I think this is true for podcasters. We should even probably do an episode on. email list growth for podcasters and get someone to come talk to us about that, because I think it's super, super important. So it's not just about, I've had 10, 000 downloads this month. One of the success metrics, and we've talked about this, actually, how do we grow the, our email list?

Yeah. And encouraging people to subscribe, because that data, you actually own that data. Um, everything else, Meta owns it, Instagram owns it, you know, Apple owns the mechanism for playing podcasts. It could all go a bit wrong later down the line, and I think one of the lessons we've learned from eCommerce is if I can't get the sale of the product, I want to get their email address.

Yeah, yeah, [00:32:00] yeah. And I think with podcasting, the primary purpose of, whatever your primary purpose for doing the podcasting is, if you, if you're doing it to build a network or whatever it is, fundamentally you've got to get the email addresses of people you want on the show, and, and, and, and, People listening to the show because that's your audience.

And I think you always mix good content like this type of stuff, but with a regular email newsletter as well. Yeah. Um, and I, and staying in touch that way by email is super, super important. Super important. Yeah. Does that answer your question? It does.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you.

Matt Edmundson: It's 60. I didn't do it in 10 words.

Sadaf Beynon: Or 60 seconds.

Or 60 seconds.

Matt Edmundson: Anyway.

Sadaf Beynon: No, no, that's good. Thank you.

Matt Edmundson: Next week,

Sadaf Beynon: next week, we have Peter Murphy. So new guest,

Matt Edmundson: fantastic new guest, Peter Murphy, what a legend. I love this. I'm looking forward to this. Peter is such a cool guy. Yeah. But before we get into that, John, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us.[00:33:00]

You are as always a legend, my friend. And I think it's been invaluable listening to it. And so I think we're putting up John's full interview.

Sadaf Beynon: That's coming out this week. That's coming out this week, end

Matt Edmundson: of this week as well. So do check out the full interview with John. Um, we've only picked out three of, well, four.

I say three or four, four, because we've had four episodes. But we've picked out four snippets that we've talked about. There is so much more in the full interview. So make sure you do listen to John's full interview. Do reach out to him, uh, say hello. As podcasters, we all love to hear from people. So even if you don't want to buy anything, you don't need BattleBox or all that sort of stuff, just drop him a note and say John.

Really appreciate what you did, man, uh, on the Podjunction Podcast, he'll appreciate it, so reach out to him. All his information will be in the show notes, obviously, uh, and you can connect with John, but do listen to the full interview, because it's gonna be epic. And then, of course, make sure you are subscribed and all of that sort of good stuff, because we've got Pete Murphy coming up next [00:34:00] week.

Who's another? He's just fab. I love Pete. Uh, and so, yeah. Anything else from you? Nope. That's it from me. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.

Sadaf Beynon: And that brings us to the end of today's episode at Podjunction. If you've enjoyed the insights from this episode and want to hear the full conversation with today's special guest, don't forget to visit podjunction. com, where you'll find more information about how you can join Podjunction Cohort.

Whether you listen while on the go or in a quiet moment, thank you for letting us know. Remember, every episode is a chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting. So keep on tuning in, keep on learning, and until next time, happy [00:35:00] podcasting.