From Episodes to Clients with Podcasting | Michelle Thames

Michelle Thames: [00:00:00] Podcasting has just really been that authority driving factor for my brand and to get clients as well, right? You are able to seed your products and services and what you do inside of your podcast, and so that is also a lead generation tool as.

Sadaf Beynon: Hey there. This is Pod Junction podcast, the show where business leaders share how they use podcasting to grow, connect, and build their brands. We also explore the smart marketing moves that can help your podcast be even more powerful. I'm Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm talking to Michelle Thames. Michelle is a visibility strategist, award-winning podcaster and CEO helping women entrepreneurs turn expertise into income.

She hosts the Globally ranked Social Media Decoded podcast and leads Elevate and Empower, which is a coaching community for clarity, visibility, [00:01:00] and burnout, free growth. Michelle, welcome. So good to have you here.

Michelle Thames: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here today.

Sadaf Beynon: It's my pleasure, Michelle, what drew you to podcasting and what brought social media decoded into existence?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, so in the height of the pandemic, I know everyone was in the house and I had always wanted to have my own radio show, and so I love social media and marketing so much. I said, you know what, now is the time I've built my brand for the last, I think by that time it was like 10 years, and so I'm like, okay, I've built my brand for 10 years and now it's time to step into.

The podcasting realm. And so I decided during the pandemic that it was the best time because everyone was at home and I had nothing but time to be able to put this podcast together. So I decided to start a social media podcast because I love marketing and I also didn't see enough women and enough women of color who had a marketing podcast.

And so I said, okay, I have [00:02:00] an absolute lane, and so I'm gonna go full force. And I started my podcast and I think that. Podcasting is so powerful because it can help position your brand, especially if you have a personal brand. It can just help position you as a authority. It is a place where people come to get information.

People are fans of podcasts. They love to listen to them, and so I wanted to create space for that. And so that's how social media decoded was birthed back in 2020, so it's been five years and we have over 500 episodes.

Sadaf Beynon: Wow, that's incredible. So it's going well.

Michelle Thames: Yes, it's going well. I love podcasting. I actually am about to post one of my, um, interviews when we get off of here.

Yes. I love it. I love it.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. So if you were to strip away all the other platforms and trends, what job would you say your podcast does that Nothing else can do this. That's good. I [00:03:00]

Michelle Thames: think that podcasting, like I said, builds, builds that authority in a different way than Instagram or Facebook. I think people can really connect with you through your podcast.

It's your own show. I know most people try to, you know, they want it to be cookie cutter or you have to do it a, B, C. It doesn't have to be done that way. Your podcast can literally be yours. It's your show. So I think that it just takes. Precedent and could be that authority driving, I wanna say vehicle, right authority driving vehicle for your brand versus Instagram where it might take people a little bit longer to convert or a little bit longer to get to know you.

But I feel like if they are fans and subscribe to your podcast and you post consistently, it just is a different story.

Sadaf Beynon: So how would you say your authority has grown or has been built over the last five years in comparison to the years prior to that?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, I would say, I think I [00:04:00] get many more speaking engagements because as a podcaster, that should be, if you're interested, you can definitely become a highly sought after speaker, right?

I think that I've gotten opportunities to speak. I've gotten opportunity to speak on other people's platforms. I've done a lot of podcast swabs like we're doing here. I think that. Podcasting has just really been that authority driving factor for my brand and to get clients as well, right? You are able to seed your products and services and what you do inside of your podcast.

And so that is also a lead generation tool. So I also use my podcast as a lead generation tool and it's been very successful. Um, I'm always changing things, pivoting, growing, so I don't want anyone here to think if you start a podcast, you have to just. Keep it the same. That's not true. You can always change the direction.

Um, I know you know, many people have changed the name of their podcast, but the foundation is still the same.

Sadaf Beynon: Fantastic. You've talked about [00:05:00] personal branding. How do you keep your host voice consistent? Consistent across the episodes while you're still experimenting and thinking about what you know, how to keep it fresh?

Michelle Thames: Yeah. Um, I would say I always am consistent when it comes to the content. When I say pivoting, I'm just talking about like different things you may be doing in your business, but my voice is always the same. The way that I introduce the podcast or what I talk about consistently is the same. I talk about how to grow an online business, how to build your personal brand, how to.

Leverage visibility from social media. So I think being consistent in how you show up and also how you show up other places, it matters. So yes, your podcast should be consistent with everywhere else that you're showing up. For me, I speak the same things in the beginning of my podcast so people know that it's my podcast so people know what they can expect.

Um, you can have an intro and outro if you want to on your podcast. Definitely played around with that. I've had it, then I took it away. I brought it back and then I took it away. So [00:06:00] again, just continuing to elevate and, you know, grow with your podcast is definitely what I've been doing.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. And, and tell me a little bit more about how you're using it for lead generation.

What have you seen? What's working?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, so I have a free seven day visibility challenge, and I almost always talk about that in my podcast. So getting people to maybe. Join your freebie or join your email list, you definitely can use and utilize your podcast as a lead generation tool that way. I've had people who have joined my online women's entrepreneur community from the podcast because they've said that they've listened to me and now they trust me, and now they're ready to buy.

So it may not come. Right away because podcasting is a long game, as you know. It's not something that's just gonna return and be a return on an investment at the minute you start. I'm five years in as we're talking today, and so maybe over the last two to three years is when [00:07:00] I really started to see and increase in leads and an increase in people converting from my podcast.

So having different strategies where I see products and services or events that I'm hosting or. Places that I'm speaking and what I'm doing gets people engaged and just, they continue to follow me along the journey. So I like to see things within my podcast. And of course they're there forever, right? So now people can always go back to that.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I like what you're saying about, you know, you are five years in, but it was about two or three years after starting that you really start to, to see the traction. 'cause I think that's an important piece for people too. Understand when they're thinking about starting a podcast, that if it's gonna be organic, it does take time for traction.

It does take time to people to get to know you and to build that trust with you so that, um, they'll keep listening and maybe even look out for your services. Tell me a little bit more about the visibility challenge.

Michelle Thames: Yes. So it's a seven day audio challenge [00:08:00] because I love audio, right? With podcasting. But I have a visibility challenge where.

Most people are either afraid to show up online, they don't know what to say. They feel so overwhelmed when it comes to social media, and I literally just put out a post yesterday and it it re, it rains true to this, right? Most people who have a personal brand, they're like, oh, I don't know what to post.

Oh, I don't know what to say. Oh, I don't have a plan. So in my seven day visibility, I don't like to call it a challenge. 'cause then people feel like it's. You know, homework, but it is some homework in there because I want you to think about like your brand and how you're putting it out there, and take small steps every day for these seven days to see change.

And so the challenge just takes you through seven days of me giving you tips, me giving you things to do every single day so you can increase your visibility. I talk a lot about organic growth and like you said. Organic takes a while, right? Of course, you can throw ads and do all these [00:09:00] things, but without a real organic foundation, you're missing out.

And so in that seven days challenge, I do talk about just building that foundation and putting yourself out there, getting visible in the way that works best for you. Because I honestly also believe that you shouldn't show up in the places that don't make you feel good. Like if you don't like Instagram and video.

Maybe that's not for you. So instead of complaining about it all day, which I see tons of people complaining about Instagram, start a podcast then, but then how are people gonna even find out about your podcast if you don't have social media or you don't show up? So it kind of has to work all together.

So during that challenge, I give you seven days and also a plan to help you increase your visibility.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. Would you say you have, um, a core belief about visibility that, that other marketers would maybe disagree with? And I guess where did that belief come from for you? Was it a story? Um, a, a mentor?

Where did that come from?

Michelle Thames: I think it's from my lived experience with [00:10:00] social media. Now, this may go against the grain of what other people say, but I don't think you have to show up, and I don't believe you have to show up every day. You don't. You should be consistent and have a rhythm. And so I also talk about having and building your own visibility rhythm within your business, right?

You don't have to show up every day, but you need a plan. So maybe that's. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you're posting on whatever platforms and you're being consistent and you have an actual call to action with goals that you are putting this content out and you want something in return. I think most people just put out content without realizing like what they actually want in return, and so it kind of gets clouded and people feel.

You know, overextended or overwhelmed because they have so much, so much to do, so much to post. And so I think just having a plan is the best way and being super strategic. It's not just about posting something to get a [00:11:00] post out there. That's what most people, oh, I just gotta get something up to date to post.

Then like you're putting that post out and it doesn't really have anything behind it. Like what's the call to action? What's the reason? So I would say my view on posting may be different from other marketers in the sense of I don't think you have to post 16 posts in one day to be seen. I think you wanna be found by the right people.

Yeah. In order to do that, you need to have a strategy that's consistent, but also. Works with your life. We have to be very realistic that some of these platforms may not work for you. It may not, you know, you may not understand fully like the platform and how to leverage it, and so it'll be harder for you to continue.

So figuring out first what platforms you should be on, and then figuring out a plan to post and create content for those platforms.

Sadaf Beynon: Great. I love that. Michelle, if someone is listening to this and maybe has fallen into the trap of, you know, posting [00:12:00] for the sake of posting in as many as possible and they were to think about having a strategic plan, what would be some of the top things do you think that they would need to consider in this plan?

Michelle Thames: First, clarity. What's your messaging? Who are you talking to? Because you can't talk to everybody, right. I think the saying is. If you're talking to everyone, you're talking to, no one. So in this, in this seven day challenge too, we talk about clarity, being really clear on who you are and who you help. I like to be clear on who I help.

Yes, I help men and women, right? But I really focus on women entrepreneurs and career professionals, right? And so I like to say that, I like to voice that. I like to share that. If you go to my Instagram, you can see. I do meetups with women entrepreneurs. I like to talk to women, so being really clear on who that person is, I even have the person, my customer persona, down to a T, like I call her Sarah.

Sarah May work a nine to five, right? She's maybe trying to. [00:13:00] Leave her nine to five so that she can be a full-time entrepreneur. But she doesn't know how to do that. She doesn't know how to show up visibly on social media and beyond to share about her brand. And so that is how I help people to show up, but not only to show up.

Show up as your fullest self, right? I'm authentic in everything that I do, the way that I show up. And so clarity is the first step. The second step is like we just talked about, knowing which platforms work best for you and what platforms your audience is even on. Your audience may not even be on Instagram, so if not, it doesn't even make sense for you to focus on that platform, right?

Millennials and Gen XI will say, are the top people that are on Instagram, gen Z. They're probably not most likely on Instagram or Facebook, right? They're probably on TikTok. So you have to really think of who your ideal client is and what in which way to approach the different platforms. Third thing that I would say when you come to this plan is to check your [00:14:00] analytics, right?

You don't wanna do all of this. And then you see it's not working, but you can always go back to the numbers to interpret that. The numbers don't lie. And so you can see like, okay, people are gravitating towards this content more. Maybe I should post more of that when I post this type of content. It increased my visibility.

So looking at your analytics overall as well to keep pivoting or refining your plan when it comes to your visibility.

Sadaf Beynon: Great. Thank you. So that's Clarity, platform and analytics. Those are the The three of your seven, right? Seven, yes.

Michelle Thames: Well, there's more of course that we talk about in the challenge, but those are the three that I say when we are approaching our visibility, what we should start with and think about.

Sadaf Beynon: Perfect. Cool. Michelle, if your podcast is the vehicle, as you referred to it earlier, what would be some of the other top ways that you would say truly move the needle for your business? Other [00:15:00] channels, sorry.

Michelle Thames: Yes, I would say Instagram and Facebook and my email list. They all work together and I'm upping it up on LinkedIn.

I know we chatted on LinkedIn. I've been on there. I haven't posted in a few weeks, but that is a part of my strategy as well. Um, those are the top platforms that I like to focus on. But other ways too, like leveraging other people's audiences, right? Just like we're doing today. I like to go on podcast tours.

Okay. That's something for you to think about for your visibility. How can you increase your visibility? Maybe it's not so. Heavy social media focus, right? So podcasting and podcast interviews. Also being a part of other people's summits, there's this Facebook community called Bundles of Bundles, and you can be a part of different bundles and different people's.

Summits, and so that helps you increase your visibility as well. So think about the other ways that can increase your visibility without necessarily necessarily always having to be on social [00:16:00] media. I'm going to Dallas tomorrow to speak at someone's conference. That's visibility, right? I am going to someone else's conference to speak on their stage and increase my visibility that way, because guess what?

When I go to that conference, I'm gonna create content, right? And then I'm gonna post that content on my page. I'm gonna also talk about it on my podcast. So essentially what I like to do is create a digital ecosystem. So that's what I've coined it. I've coined the ecosystem as like you're saying, the system that helps you get visible.

It doesn't have to be stressful, you just have to have a plan.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. That's very cool. So before I move on, I just, I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind just sketching your flow for me. So you have the podcast and then does that then inform your newsletter, your email, then your community, your social media?

Yes. How does that, how does it flow together for you?

Michelle Thames: So, I like to be different, so I like to really [00:17:00] focus on two weeks at a time when it comes to like planning and content. I know most people. You know, batch three, four months of content. I used to do that, but it doesn't work for me anymore. I like to stay in real time and what's going on.

So when I do approach like my system, I start with my podcast, but it also starts with what I have going on in my business. So, for example, I just batched. A week and a half worth of content, but everything is in alignment with what I'm doing. So I host a lot of networking events. So I have networking events coming up.

I have, I'm going to Dallas, and so all the episodes on my podcast are in alignment with everything that I'm doing and talking about. So I think I have episode coming out tomorrow about. The top visibility tips or tools that I'm, you know, been focusing on. And so that's an episode. Then I'm gonna also record an episode while I'm in Dallas about the event that I'm at.

And I think that that's important too, because at first I used to just. [00:18:00] Record 20 episodes and like they will already be recorded. But like things change, especially with social media. And so I wanna want it to be more in tune with the actual things that were going on and be able to also just integrate that with what I have going on in my business.

So it starts with the podcast and then from the podcast? Yes. Sometimes I do share the podcast. My emails. And then from there, the content that I post online is just in alignment with the things that I have going on in my business. So it all just acts as like a digital ecosystem. And how I like to teach my clients is if you, if your podcast is your long form content, take that and break it.

Post a reel on Instagram, you can post on LinkedIn, but you don't have to keep thinking about the themes and the content, right, because you've already created that anchor, which is your podcast, or your YouTube or your blog, and then take from there to post on the other platform. So that's what I usually [00:19:00] do.

Now, does it always work out like that? Sometimes no, but that is the, the strategy that I have when it comes to the podcast being the anchor and then posting that content on other platforms.

Sadaf Beynon: I really like that. And I, I, I understand what you're saying. I do similar. What I found interesting is how, you said you used to batch record and now you're just doing like a couple weeks at a time, and I, I love that approach because I think as, as you were saying, your content remains relevant and it resonates with the right people at the right time.

But I can also see, well, from my experience is that it's very time consuming, which is why people batch record, isn't it? So how do you, how do you do that? How do you make sure you're still able to, you know, tick all those boxes, plus show up for everything else?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, so the interesting thing about my podcast is all my episodes are five to 10 minutes long, the solo episode.

So I like to, and [00:20:00] I actually just did this the other day. I did like five episodes in one day, and so then I'll. Put those out over the next few weeks. And then I also have prerecorded interviews that I have batched, I have, I've went through, like this week I've just been posting interviews because I wanted to get the interviews out.

And so again, if anyone's listening to this, things change and don't think that you just have to have a rigid way that you do things because. You could switch it up and change it and do things like on the fly if you need to. A lot of entrepreneurs are, I want you to think or I want you to know that most of them are okay.

They're always pivoting. They're always changing, so. My podcasts are five to 10 minutes, so I'm able to do that in one setting. So I like to set aside like an hour, hour and 30 minutes just to batch record five to seven episodes each time so that I'm continuing to get ahead because actually since July I've been posting a podcast every day.

I know that sounds crazy, but I have, I've been posting a podcast every day, and [00:21:00] I've seen my numbers. Increase. The reason that I started to do this is because I'm also on a podcast network, and so my whole thought process is, is they allow ads on my podcast. So that's helping me, right? That's helping me because they put ads on my podcast, and now I'm able to leverage that when people listen to my podcast and download my podcast.

So the more podcasts that I post, the more visibility I get and also the more revenue that I can make. So I'm again, very strategic about how I do things. Yes, it's hard. I would not recommend people posting a podcast every day. Sometimes I'm like, why did I even decide to do this? But I think it just keeps me consistent and it keeps me, you know, on my toes.

And five to 10 minute episodes for me personally, is not hard. I love to talk, as you can see. Um, and so just time blocking that and not doing it on the fly time blocking.

Sadaf Beynon: You mentioned earlier that three of your, um, top channels [00:22:00] that you use are social emails and um, that you are moving slowly into LinkedIn.

I, and so I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind telling me a little bit more about, I think you said Instagram and Facebook, but formats do you put on those platforms? Is it Clipse Carousels Live, and how do you anchor them to your podcast episode?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, so sometimes I don't always share the podcast episodes on those platforms.

On Facebook, I like to share more authority content, more content that gets people engaged. Videos, I am monetized on Facebook, and so every single piece of content that I put out has the opportunity to help me generate income. So it could just be something that I was thinking. Also, my friends and family still follow my.

Facebook account, but it's a professional account so people can follow my page, but they can also be my friend. So I like to just be more open on that page and share my daughter. I share my family, I share about what I'm [00:23:00] doing. I do share about the podcast on Instagram as well. I do have a podcast page that I'm looking to, but as you know, it's so hard to continue to manage all these pages and so on.

My Instagram, I like to post content in alignment with just. Who I am and what I do. So it looks a little bit different. Like I might share my running journey in my stories, right? Today I went before this podcast. I know that sounds crazy. I woke up at five o'clock today. I knew we had this podcast at eight o'clock.

Well, it's 8:00 AM and I know you're in the uk, so I had to be on this podcast at eight o'clock. So I had to do my run at six, and then I share that on social media and then I might share this in my Instagram stories, but. My feed, I like to reserve for like the content that I have planned. So right now I'm currently in promotion mode for my event coming up this November.

So a lot of that content will be pushed towards the November event that I have coming. But it also goes back to the podcast because I will share that on the podcast. So I hope that that makes sense in the sense of [00:24:00] yes, like all the content is similar and in the same realm, but it might look different on what goes on each platform, depending on my day, because.

Again, we try to be so rigid, but I wanna show people, it doesn't have to be like that. Instagram, I think, is a place people wanna see the behind the scenes of your life. They wanna get to know who you are. They want edutainment. Instagram used to be the place where it was three tips about this. No one wants to see that anymore.

They would rather see B-roll footage of you at the gym and sharing like. Something that you're interested about, and so it's just a bit different on how to approach that. Now, LinkedIn, now that's the platform that I am utilizing for corporate training and things like that. So really showing up as an authority there as well.

But also sharing my podcast episodes, sharing the people that I've had on the podcast along with the things that I'm doing within the week. That's how I've been utilizing and posting on all those platforms together.

Sadaf Beynon: We, we [00:25:00] talked earlier about, um, you know, the, the seven areas that you touch on, and the second one was platform hosting.

Where people are at with Instagram and Facebook. Is it the right people? But they want a different lens on what you are doing. Is that, is that right?

Michelle Thames: Yes. I think definitely on Instagram. I think it's more, Instagram always has been that more. Place where people wanna see that behind the scenes, right?

That's why Instagram stories do really well. Like I love stories even versus my feed. I know they expire in 24 hours, but you can really be strategic in how you leverage your stories to get people from there on another platform. Or onto your email list. That's what I think you should do with all these platforms.

Get them off of these platforms so that they can go onto your email list. 'cause you own that and you own your podcast. You don't own Instagram and you don't own Facebook. So getting them off of those platforms. So usually when I'm posting it is [00:26:00] to get them somewhere else. Like I recently posted yesterday and it was like sign up for my events list.

Right? So getting those people off of those platforms. And so yes, I do think that. Instagram and Facebook are kind of those more laid back platforms for my, my personal thoughts. Now, somebody else might think different, but I think again, Instagram is the place. Millennials are on Instagram, right? If your age range is probably like 35 to 65, they're probably on Instagram.

Facebook, again, is more older generation as well. I don't know a lot of Gen Zs on Instagram, but again, I mean on Facebook, but I think that that platform is more. Kind of like laid back, family oriented. 'cause it's like how it started, right? And so most people can't get out of that mindset, but I literally post the same type of content, right?

I think the people are there. It's just that you have to be visible and they have to know who you are and what you do to even engage with your content. So if you never show [00:27:00] up or say, hello, I'm Michelle. This is what I do, they'll never know. So you have to also keep posting that type of content over and over.

I literally just posted a. Just a picture of me with a caption saying, hi, I'm Michelle. If you're new here, this is who I am and what I do. And then you can pin that to the top of your profile on Facebook. So when somebody comes on your page, they can see that. So yes, I think that the approaches to the platforms should be different because they're all rooted in different algorithm algorithms in the way that people utilize the platforms.

I hope they makes.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, it does. Thank you for sharing that. You also just touched on emails and growing that list. So what's actually working for list growth for you now? Is it, you know, lead magnets? What? What do you do?

Michelle Thames: Yes. So the audio challenge is currently my only lead magnet. I have others out there, right?

But I think that's the main one that I focus on. I think email is still gold. You just have to [00:28:00] be strategic in how you send emails because now you know, email deliverability is a issue and you know, people, it go to their promotions folder. And so I honestly, in this season am going to lean more into SS.

Text message marketing. To be honest with you, I have some people's phone numbers on my email list, but my goal in the next few months is to really lean more into text message because I found that that just works better. Everyone has their phone. In their hand. Right? And if you send them a message right there to click on something, they're probably gonna be more likely to buy instead of you sending an email that most people may not check as often.

Now, while I still say it is a solid way, okay,

Sadaf Beynon: hmm.

Michelle Thames: Email can make you some great money. But just start to think about the other ways in like SMS that you can leverage. But growing your email list, yes. From whatever freebie, maybe you have a masterclass or a free downloadable. But remembering to also [00:29:00] follow up with those people because you can get lost in the sauce and all of the other things that these people are downloading and people's email list that they're joining.

So how are you being remembered and how are you continuing to be visible in that way too?

Sadaf Beynon: That's great. Thank you Michelle. Um, the other thing I wanted to ask you about was how you build community on elevate and empower. How are you converting your listeners into members of your community?

Michelle Thames: Yeah, so.

Sometimes I do have episodes just focused directly on Elevated Empower, but I think many people listen and then they learn about my community and wanna join. So what I'm building for women entrepreneurs, and I've been building my community for about a year now, and we have online and in person, which I'm bringing to Chicago in November.

I just recently hosted a Coffee and connections on this past Sunday and I posted it to my social media and within 48 hours, all 10 spots were gone. Wow, fantastic. That [00:30:00] to me tells me that community is what's needed. It's my superpower, and I really just wanna continue to lean into that and just help women build, build, and grow together.

And so I've just seen a lot of increase in people wanting to get back into the room. Right. We've been at home for the last five years. People are still at home. I mean, I still see, see people, you know. We wanna get outside. I think the connection in person beats social media, Instagram, podcasting altogether, because when someone meets you in the room, in person, it's just so different from being online.

They could feel the energy, they can know that you are that person that they wanna work with. So. I am intentional about creating more spaces like that to continue to cultivate community for women to be able to network, to collab together. Those opportunities aren't always available online. So yes, I create those opportunities online, but merging them with in [00:31:00] person is really how I'm building this community.

I'm excited. Hopefully by this time next year there'll be about 500 members in the community and I'll be able to celebrate. I'm celebrating now, um, but I'll be able to say, wow, look at how we've built that community over the last year and now here we are today. So that's how I've been building community in Elevated Empower and I'm excited.

I do have a event coming up in November in Chicago. I'm not sure if you're listeners, I know they're all over the world, but if anyone is in Chicago, I'd definitely love for you to join us.

Sadaf Beynon: Absolutely. Yes, that would be amazing. Before we move on, I wanted to ask you about summits and speaking engagement.

So how does the podcast help you lent those stages and the colabs and what's in the pitch that makes Yes, easier?

Michelle Thames: I think when people who are decision makers listen to your podcast, it's very easy for them to say, I want her on my platform. I've [00:32:00] also been leveraging. When people reach out to me to make it a win-win situation for us both.

So if they have an opportunity for me to come and speak, I like to take those opportunities. I recently did that. I have a lot of people who pitch me to be on my podcast, which is I'm so grateful for, but I also wanna make it a mutually beneficial relationship where it's not just like one sided. So I like to do it like that, and.

Honestly, I think that just the podcast is, you know, it put, it positions you as that authority. When someone can listen to you in their ears, it's easier for them to say, yes, she would be great to be on my podcast. She speaks very well. I, I can go to her social media and see that she's spoken on other stages.

So for me. The podcast has just been that one of those factors where someone finds me online, then they can binge all my content, go to my podcast and make the decision to bring me onto their platform or bring me into their summit. Um, it literally happened last [00:33:00] year where I met a girl online on threads and then she started to follow me.

I spoke at her event in. April and now we're like business besties. But she went to all of my content, went to my podcast, started listening, and that's how she ended up making her decision. So there's people listening is what I wanna say. Right. A podcast is that authority tool that can really put you ahead of a lot of other people who don't have podcasts.

Because guess what? Most people start podcasts and they only record eight episodes and it's called Pod Fate and they never record again. If you can get past that, you are already winning. You're already winning. So I think if you wanna speak and do things like that, be on summits, leveraging your podcast is that authority tool would definitely help you ha as it has helped me.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. And Michelle, what's one uncomfortable truth about sustainable visibility that most leaders resist, and if they accepted it, what exactly would change [00:34:00] in their next episode, do you think?

Michelle Thames: Ooh. Consistency, just like I said, with the pod fade. Continuing to push through no matter what, right?

Because we know that this entrepreneur journey is stressful. It's not for everybody. It's tough, right? I think it's a huge personal development thing, right? Every single day you're learning something about yourself. Consistency, especially with podcasting, showing up online. I think if you're consistent, and I don't mean consistent.

By you have to post every day. That's not what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. But if you have a consistent rhythm and you're consistent with that week after week, your visibility is just going to increase. People are going to see you, people are going to notice you. And it doesn't have to be 50,000 people. It can really be the quality of people.

I don't like to focus on the big numbers. I want quality people. Over 50,000 people, anytime. I recently had a real [00:35:00] go viral. I painted it in the light of my business, but the people that came to that real are not even necessarily a part of my community. So I honestly don't wanna go viral, and that's what I should have said about most people, most marketers, right?

It's all about going viral. I don't wanna go viral because this just showed me like the reel has like 200,000 views and like 9,000 likes and hundreds of comments. Most of them are not even like my ideal person. So just thinking about that, right? You don't wanna go viral because what comes with it, people can say random things.

They're saying like all type of things. And so virality is just not something that I'm interested in. So really, again, I think podcasting can really just help you with that authority. And social media, sometimes, again, virality may not be what you actually want. You say you want it, but you don't. You actually want quality.

People versus the quantity of people.

Sadaf Beynon: I [00:36:00] really like what you've said there, Michelle, earlier when you were talking about consistency, you paired it with, um, having CTAs and also goals or having a goal. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Michelle Thames: Yes. I think every post that you post on social media, whether it be a podcast, a Instagram post, a LinkedIn post, should have a call to action and a goal.

You should never just post content just to post, to get something out there. I always like to measure, right? You can measure with your call to actions. I like to use tools like Manny Chat to have someone comment a word or DM me, and that could be an easy way for you too, if you're like, oh, I just don't have the time, you know?

But. Automation tools like that can really help you in the sense of, now you're measuring this, right? Someone has commented a word. I usually do this on my podcast too. I will tell them in the podcast, go to my social media and comment a word or DM me. So then that way I know, wow, that person listened to the podcast because I only said, [00:37:00] dm me the word there, right?

And so you can measure that. And so I think just your visibility in that way can be increased when you are able to measure, right? You're able to know, okay, these people came from Instagram, they came from Facebook, they came from my podcast, and not just putting out random content that doesn't have a goal attached to it.

So the goal could be, I'm trying to get people to join my November event or join my email list, and the call to action is Please DM me the word power. So that we can connect, right? So I think when you do that and you have a consistent call to action and a goal on each piece of content, it just makes it easier for you to see the bigger picture and see what's going on and what you can measure and what's working and what's not, and it can make it less frustrating for you.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm. Thank you, Michelle. And just thinking back about some of the stuff you've said, you're very strategic in, in your approach, and you know, even talking about making those small changes, like looking [00:38:00] at the analytics. If it's working, then great. If it's not, then what do you need to do to, um, to move the needle?

You know? I, I love your approach, Michelle. This has been super insightful. Thank you so much for sharing so openly with us.

Michelle Thames: Yes, thank you. This has been so great. I'm so excited to be here. It's been amazing.

Sadaf Beynon: Michelle, if listeners want to go deeper or connect with you, where should they start?

Michelle Thames: Yes, please.

Come on over to Instagram and follow me at Michelle l Tha, and if you want to listen to me in your ears and get some amazing marketing and social media information, you can follow my podcast. Social media, decoded.

Sadaf Beynon: Awesome. So those listening in, thank you for being here. All the links that Michelle has just mentioned are in the show description for you, and here's the takeaway.

I hope that sticks. Make your podcast the vehicle. Then let email, social speaking, and community turn one conversation into real [00:39:00] results. Thank you for listening and bye for now.